Mark Bass content...Talk me out of this>?

[Randyt]

Well, Im presently playing a Mesa Carbine 6 (2x12)combo and i find it great...yet it dosent have the clarity / depth Im looking for...Also taking the head in and out is a pain in the butt, and like I said it the 2x12 sounds great...but its not fitting the bill.
.So...Im thinking for my next purchase a Mark Bass Tube 800 with the 104HF....Whadya think...am I over looking something....

Let me know!!!!

[jmattbassplaya]

I'm having a hard time believing it doesn't have any depth or that it lacks clarity. I played that exact rig with a StingRay at GC once and was blown away by how deep, punchy, and clear that rig sounded. I'm inclined to believe you're doing something funny with your EQ if you're not getting any clarity or depth.

[chiplexic]

Originally Posted by Randyt

Well, Im presently playing a Mesa Carbine 6 (2x12)combo and i find it great...yet it dosent have the clarity / depth Im looking for...Let me know!!!!

I found the Mesa Carbine line to be very clear and very deep imo. But I don't believe you will find more clarity in that particular Markbass set up.
I'd recommend looking toward the Genz Benz Shuttle series of amps and Uber cabs for depth and particularly clarity.

[Randyt]

for the most part my EQing is set to flat...but saying that ,I have run the full range of all EQing...on bass and on amp...it will cut through the mix at decent volume without breaking up, decent head room....not so sure its the head as much as the cab...???thats why I think I m looking at the 4x10

[Mirza83]

I'm running you'r desired rig. It's unreal. If you are looking for clarity/depth and unbelievable mids, I suggest you switch. I agree with Mesa, can sound muffled. What bass are you running?

[Randyt]

Im running a Elrick Single Cut 6xer (35") with Bart soap bars and Bart Preamp...

[KJung]

While I am one of the biggest Markbass fans out there (at least the Markbass heads), the M6 is brutally full and extremely articulate (massive low end, massive volume, super goosed up top... bright and aggressive).

Most Markbass heasd (my favorite is the F500) will have MUCH less absolute low end, and will sound very much more even and 'transparent', which might sound 'compressed and dull' to you after the M6.

Something doesn't make sense here. I don't particularly like the M6 myself, since I've always enjoyed a bit more of a neutral voicing to my amplification, but my gosh, the M6 is a beast, and is quite unforgiving given its wide range and upper mid and treble extension.

The closest micro that I've heard to the M6 is the GKM500 (and I assume the GK M800 would give more of that huge hammer down low). The closest Markbass head to the M6 would be the LMT800, which has a more extended low end and brighter, more goosed top end than most other Markbass heads.

[Mirza83]

I think it's matter of preference at the end of the day. In my experience, 2x12 usually sound muffled. I have 4x10 hf standard 2x10 traveller and the 2x12 in mark bass. I mostly prefer playing 2x10 because it gives me the clarity I want. The mids are really accentuated whereas the 2x12 gives you a lot of bottom end but less clarity. The 4x10 are probably the best combination if you are playing in medium
Sized venue and you after the cross in between the two other cabinets I mentioned.

[JimmyM]

I think it's the Barts, personally. They're a pretty dark pickup...not my favorite active pickup ever made. I'm more of an EMG guy when it comes to active pickups

BTW, speaker size is completely unrelated to tone. There are about 30 other factors that go into what a cab sounds like, and speaker size is the least important. Judge each rig on its own merits.

[PhatBasstard]

Originally Posted by Randyt

Im running a Elrick Single Cut 6xer (35") with Bart soap bars and Bart Preamp...

First, I'm a Markbass guy. But I don't think the amp is your issue. It's the Barts IMHO.

Although I've been an EMG guy for most of my 30+ year playing career, a few years ago I made about a year long trek into the world of Bartolini's. When I first heard these pups (in my then Laklands) I thought I was in heaven. Through headphones they had the most beautiful bass tone I thought I'd ever heard. The Holy Grail.

It wasn't until I played live that the reality set in. They didn't cut at all and just had no clarity. Mud, mud, mud!

I am now back to Spectors with EMG's and, although they aren't the prettiest sounding solo or with the $300 cans on, they sure cut and sit in the band mix well with punch and clarity.

Not saying EMG's are necessarily your solution. Just that my experience with the Bart setup was the same as yours.

[Gearhead17]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

I think it's the Barts, personally. They're a pretty dark pickup...not my favorite active pickup ever made. I'm more of an EMG guy when it comes to active pickups

BTW, speaker size is completely unrelated to tone. There are about 30 other factors that go into what a cab sounds like, and speaker size is the least important. Judge each rig on its own merits.

Right with you Jimmy. The Barts are killing the high end clarity. Big reason why I use EMG DC40's ONLY.

Clarity and depth are two BIG things the M6 and nearly any modern Mesa cab can deliver. Those were the exact reasons I avoided the M6 or the M9. For me, that sound is just annoying and not very helpful to what I am looking for.

[Brad Johnson]

The Bart pickups in an Elrick aren't active. They aren't dark in a typical Elrick either. It's actually one of the brighter deployments of those pickups that I've come across. If you have an Elrick with stock electronics that doesn't cut in the mix with a decent set of roundwounds on it (and you aren't doing something drastic with the EQ) the problem lies elsewhere IME. I've owned and gigged several Elricks.

What's the body wood on the Elrick? Standard is Swamp Ash and that's a bright bass that cuts. Clarity and depth galore.

I would love to know what some of you guys are playing Bartolini pickups in. The idea that they don't have highs is persistent and frankly, odd. I have so many Bart installs with full bodied sound and killer highs and have so many friends and acquaintences who have the same in several brands and styles of basses that we get a chuckle out of the idea that Barts supposedly sound muffled. Nobody told our basses.

[JimmyM]

Brad, it all boils down to some people like Barts, some don't. I've played several Tobias basses with Barts, and my band's sax player has a Lakland 5 with Barts. They all come across as relatively dark to me, especially compared to EMG's. I'm sure they have enough highs for you and others...they do sell a lot of pickups. To me, they always sound rolled off on the highs, which you would think I like, and with my current band they'd probably work out well. But they're just not my thang. I prefer my treble rolloff to come from the cab

[Brad Johnson]

There is no treble roll-off with any of my basses, that's what I'm saying. If Barts did that, they'd do it in my basses too.

A friend of mine has a ton of videos up on Youtube, a common comment is that there's an abundance/excess of highs. Bart pickups and preamps set flat, the amp turned up yet people think he has the treble maxed. Imagine if he did max the treble.


I've actually had a chance IRL to talk to folks who said the same thing. The problem turned out to not be the bass... every time.



I'm not even talking about liking or not liking Barts. Highs are either there or they aren't. The people I've seen get muffled sound with them didn't get muffled sound when I turned their bass' volume up, got rid of their EQ tweaks and turned the amp up. It really can be that simple yet so many people don't know that what they're doing was causing the "problem". So they blame the pickup.

If you need to run your bass' volume control almost off or are trying to force at home EQ setting to work live with the amp's gains turned down yeah, Barts might not be the best choice.

[PhatBasstard]

All I know is they (Barts) sounded great in the cans, but didn't cut through on stage. Like I said above I had them in the Laklands and a Matt Pulcinella I was using for about a year. Loved them solo. Just didn't cut it live with a band.

I typically run everything flat whenever possible on both basses and amps. Had a very even reference as I ran/run the EMG equiped basses the same way through the same gear.

I wouldn't say it was a lack of highs as much as a scooped tone that didn't allow as much midrange to cut through relative to the EMG tone. A lot of the EMG "bark" that I find kind of ugly solo is what makes them sound good and work for me in a band context.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Brad Johnson

There is no treble roll-off with any of my basses, that's what I'm saying. If Barts did that, they'd do it in my basses too.

A friend of mine has a ton of videos up on Youtube, a common comment is that there's an abundance/excess of highs. Bart pickups and preamps set flat, the amp turned up yet people think he has the treble maxed. Imagine if he did max the treble.


I've actually had a chance IRL to talk to folks who said the same thing. The problem turned out to not be the bass... every time.



I'm not even talking about liking or not liking Barts. Highs are either there or they aren't. The people I've seen get muffled sound with them didn't get muffled sound when I turned their bass' volume up, got rid of their EQ tweaks and turned the amp up. It really can be that simple yet so many people don't know that what they're doing was causing the "problem". So they blame the pickup.

If you need to run your bass' volume control almost off or are trying to force at home EQ setting to work live with the amp's gains turned down yeah, Barts might not be the best choice.

This classic difference of opinion in the classic Bart soapbar tone has to do, IMO and IME, with semantics. To my ear, as you say, the Barts have plenty of upper treble extension... they don't 'roll off' (although those clips by your buddy are more representative of a bad recording device than anything else... i.e., lack of low end versus anything else... the 'camera mic' click and clack.

However, the classic Bart soapbar tone has a very smooth (and IMO, reduced) upper midrange and lower treble response, given them their rather smooth, polite, clean top end. So, it is more of a 'lack of brightness' than a 'lack of treble'. That is a big difference, and of course, is not a 'good versus bad' thing.

IMO, the Barts are NOT the OP's issue, since the M6 has probably the biggest upper mid/lower treble spike of any amp I've ever heard... so bright as to be painful with some basses and cabs. I would again guess that the OP is not quite realizing how interactive the tone stack is with that head. If you run the bass control 'flat', and use that very powerful mirange voicing circuit, you can end of having boom and click and nothing else.

So, to your general point, the issue points to a bit of user error with this one. That being said, I'm not a fan of the super goosed M6 tone myself, and there are many awful tones in that head if the EQ is not carefully adjusted and understood.

[lomo]

Whatever the problem may be, it is NOT the head or combo. Try the head on voice 3 ("flat") or 4 with your bass eq flat and new roundwounds. If that doesn't cut through borrow another bass and try that.

[sratas]

previously owned a SA450 + 104 HF...I think that you would not solve your tone issue by changing amp-cab. Like others have said, the M6 is an aggressive amp with lots of bite. The Little mark is more polished sounding (some say hi-fi, or even cold, a matter of personal preference...). The 104 HF is all about solid lows-lowmids due to the large dual porting and to the good overall excursion of the 10 drivers, and glassy sharp highs, due to the particular compression driver and horn. I matured this opinion playing the above mentioned rig for a year or so. In some occasions, the lows were overwhelming...and when I tell you this opinion I must say also that now I have a GB Streamliner head, that is very pillowy in nature, but very very different from the MB fullness.
My personal advice: check every other component in the signal chain, starting from the bass and so on...maybe prior to the amp there is a weak (for your tastes) ring that you can improve...

Originally Posted by Randyt

Well, Im presently playing a Mesa Carbine 6 (2x12)combo and i find it great...yet it dosent have the clarity / depth Im looking for...Also taking the head in and out is a pain in the butt, and like I said it the 2x12 sounds great...but its not fitting the bill.
.So...Im thinking for my next purchase a Mark Bass Tube 800 with the 104HF....Whadya think...am I over looking something....

Let me know!!!!

[Randyt]

Ive had some time to sit down and really go over full set up (read EQing).
firstly I play and Elrick SC 6xer (Maple Board, Swamp Ash body), Bart soap bars and Bart Preamp, Fodera Light guage Rounds.

The Amp is a Mesa Carbine 6 ...this is a 2 x 12 4ohm Combo

I set all amp settings to Flat , M6:Gain at 8 oclock, MV to 11 oclock,

Bass Vol at @3/4..and controls set to Flat: This is my general setting when I do Jazz gigs and adjust volume on bass to suit. In a solo setting and live setting...it sounded great...Round , full , deep and very expressive (3 piece band, no vocals)

Rock Gig (5 piece band + vocals)
M6: Gain 11 oclock , Mid voice set to 4 (+ mid...one click past flat), MV at 3 oclock,
Bass: Firstly, this is what I found very interesting in my research, the settings on bass must be moved off the center detent, this helps accentuate all necessary values. leaving on center detent made everything dull, muddy and very little clarity ...(read not lively)..moving just off center detent helped , but still not where I think it should be...one of the last posts ...someone said muffled...and I can agree!
The M6 had great volume (read bowel moving volume)

Im pulling out the head and going Cab shopping today/ tomorrow..Looking at either the Markbass 104HF or HD410 Bergantino...or NV610(could be over kill?)

Maybe Im driving the amp too much? ... but I thinking Im pushing the cab too far for the rock gigs...

[Randyt]

Oh forgot to mention...No pedals...bass...cable ...amp!!