Markbass...4ohms Cab makes [no] difference to 8ohms Cab ?

[lemon3007]

Hey Guys,

2 weeks ago I´ve visited a Music Store and played some Markbass rigs because I wanna buy some at the end of the year.
I thought of a Standard 104HF (4ohms!) and a Litte Mark III.

The guy at the shop told me not to choose the 4ohms cab because of having no ability to go for a second cabinet (Fact, but I think the 4ohms standard 104HF by itself will last forever).
He said I should go the 8ohms route, not only because of the ability but rather there wouldn´t be any remarkable difference in volume between the 8 and 4ohms.

I just thought I can get 500 Watts of pure Groove out of the Cabinet when choosing the 4ohms in combination with a Little Mark III (Markbass website says that, too).

What should I choose ?

Someone got experiences with that ?

Thanks,
lemon

[KJung]

If you know you will only use a single cab, and that cab (like the 410) is large enough to use all the power of the LMII at 4ohms (500 watts), then you will be better off with the 4ohm.

It won't be massively louder than the 8ohm, but will be louder, and more importantly, will sound more open and full in the low end when really pushed.

My guess is, they only had the 8ohm in stock, and the salesperson wanted to sell it and not special order the 4ohm.

He is correct though, if you get the 4ohm, you can't add another cab. As long as you are pretty sure you would never need more than a single 410 (which should cover most any gig), getting the 8ohm model is like paying for a 500 watt amp and getting a 300 watt amp. IMO and IME!

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by lemon3007

He said I should go the 8ohms route, not only because of the ability but rather there wouldn´t be any remarkable difference in volume between the 8 and 4ohms.

He's right. The difference will be only 2dB, and that's best case. If you have a very weak amp then that 2dB might be worth chasing, but otherwise don't bother.
Even doubling the amp output won't get you double the 'loudness', that requires 10dB of extra output, and that requires ten times the power.

[Gibbsalot]

I just recently made this mistake, trust me get the 8OHM! At the time I thought I would have all the volume I would ever need and I was way wrong. Oh, and it was a Markbass SA450 running full 500watts into a 500watt 4OHM Eden 210XST.

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by Gibbsalot

I just recently made this mistake, trust me get the 8OHM! At the time I thought I would have all the volume I would ever need and I was way wrong. Oh, and it was a Markbass SA450 running full 500watts into a 500watt 4OHM Eden 210XST.

Which brings up Part II of the equation: 500 watt cabs don't necessarily handle 500 watts. Most cabs can't take even half their thermal power rating before the drivers run out of excursion, so giving them more than half their rated power won't make them any louder. But if you have the ability to add a second cab then you will be able to make use of more of the power that the amp has available.

[lemon3007]

Wow thanks guys,

i think you´re all right. The 8ohms cab seems to be the most sensible for me now.
I think it is a kind of sustainable decision you make when you choose the 8ohms cab.
Thanks guys for the support !

lemon

[iualum]

...best idea is to have one of Bill's cabs built for you (or do it yourself)...

...this Omni 15 Fullrange TallBoy is k-i-l-l-e-r ! ...http://billfitzmaurice.net/Omni15.html

[JTE]

I did this about 10 years ago with my Eden rig. I got a WT-400 (225 WRMS @ 8Ω, 300 WRMS @ 4Ω). Later I got a D410XLT at four ohms. I figured that'd extract the maximum power from the amp and I'd be good. It severely limited me however. The amp won't go below four ohms safely, so I couldn't add another cabinet. The difference in power is negligible in the real world.

Adding another cabinet will almost always give you more increase in usable volume than adding power. When my buddy Tim and I did an A/B comparison of our rigs (he had a WT-400 and a pair of 8Ω D410XLT cabinets) we heard no real difference running one 8Ω cabinet or one 4Ω cabinet. But, when we ran both 8Ω boxes at the same time there was a HUGE increase in both usable volume AND in the body of the low end.

Get an 8Ω cabinet, and when you get ready to upgrade, get another matching cabinet.

John

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Gibbsalot

I just recently made this mistake, trust me get the 8OHM! At the time I thought I would have all the volume I would ever need and I was way wrong. Oh, and it was a Markbass SA450 running full 500watts into a 500watt 4OHM Eden 210XST.

With a 210, I agree. With a 410 that can easily handle the power, big mistake (if you know you won't add another cab).

The 2db measure is very misleading. While that is accurate regarding only volume (and 2db is a log scale remember... that is even meaningful), it is all about hitting the power amp limiting versus having a wide, open tone.

In comparing identical cabinets with the typical 300/500 watt 8ohm/4ohm performance, it can be a HUGE difference toward the end of the night when you are pushing the rig.... the difference between compressed low end and quashing and open low end. HUGE impact, especially if the cab is not super high SPL.

[JayOnBass]

Originally Posted by lemon3007

Hey Guys,

2 weeks ago I´ve visited a Music Store and played some Markbass rigs because I wanna buy some at the end of the year.
I thought of a Standard 104HF (4ohms!) and a Litte Mark III.

The guy at the shop told me not to choose the 4ohms cab because of having no ability to go for a second cabinet (Fact, but I think the 4ohms standard 104HF by itself will last forever).
He said I should go the 8ohms route, not only because of the ability but rather there wouldn´t be any remarkable difference in volume between the 8 and 4ohms.

I just thought I can get 500 Watts of pure Groove out of the Cabinet when choosing the 4ohms in combination with a Little Mark III (Markbass website says that, too).

What should I choose ?

Someone got experiences with that ?

Thanks,
lemon

Hi, I find that 4ohms works for me because I have available the full wattage of my amp. Plus, I only use one cab for small, medium and large venues. If you use an 8ohm cab u only have available less than half of your amp wattage.

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by JayOnBass

If you use an 8ohm cab u only have available less than half of your amp wattage.

True. The fact of the matter is in the vast majority of cases it doesn't matter, the reason why having already been explained.

[babebambi]

OP, think really hard...

Do you see yourself taking 2x 410 to pair with that LM2?
(that's the reason to get the 8 ohm 410, rite?)

I mean, come on... if I need to move that much air, that's not the head I would be using anyways...

[rpsands]

Personally I wouldn't bother with an 8 ohm 4x10 because I would NEVER EVER EVER carry more than one 4x10 to a gig. I see no reason not to have all the volume on tap I can especially since most 4x10s can realistically handle 500 watts of bass guitar (as long as you don't boost more than a couple db of bass).

Smaller modular setups, absolutely go 8 ohms.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by rpsands

Personally I wouldn't bother with an 8 ohm 4x10 because I would NEVER EVER EVER carry more than one 4x10 to a gig. I see no reason not to have all the volume on tap I can especially since most 4x10s can realistically handle 500 watts of bass guitar (as long as you don't boost more than a couple db of bass).

Smaller modular setups, absolutely go 8 ohms.

Great minds think alike

[will33]

Originally Posted by lemon3007

Hey Guys,

2 weeks ago I´ve visited a Music Store and played some Markbass rigs because I wanna buy some at the end of the year.
I thought of a Standard 104HF (4ohms!) and a Litte Mark III.

The guy at the shop told me not to choose the 4ohms cab because of having no ability to go for a second cabinet (Fact, but I think the 4ohms standard 104HF by itself will last forever).
He said I should go the 8ohms route, not only because of the ability but rather there wouldn´t be any remarkable difference in volume between the 8 and 4ohms.

I just thought I can get 500 Watts of pure Groove out of the Cabinet when choosing the 4ohms in combination with a Little Mark III (Markbass website says that, too).

What should I choose ?

Someone got experiences with that ?

Thanks,
lemon

I gotta ask....what music store has people working there who actually know what the hell they're talking about? Consider yourself fortunate.

[Sparky Mark]

This is my current set up and it is capable of very high SPL's. I play in loud rock bands and have not come close to needing a second cab for more volume and even after 2 to 3 hours loud playing the amp barely gets warm. The MB 410HF cabs are quite large, so I'd need a truck to shift more than one, but I cannot envisage needing that level of stage volume, and most larger venues provide PA support anyhow. BTW, Bass Gear Mag tested the LM2 (identical power amp i believe) and it output approx 200 watts @ 8 ohms and approx 400w @ 4 ohms.

Also, if you get the 4 ohm version you won't be tempted to spend another $1000+ on a second cab you may never really need.

[lemon3007]

I gotta ask....what music store has people working there who actually know what the hell they're talking about? Consider yourself fortunate.

Its actually THE Music Store in Cologne, Germany.
www.musicstore.de

This is my current set up and it is capable of very high SPL's. I play in loud rock bands and have not come close to needing a second cab for more volume and even after 2 to 3 hours loud playing and the amp barely gets warm. The MB 410HF cabs are quite large, so I'd need a truck to shift more than one, but I cannot envisage needing that level of stage volume, and most larger venues provide PA support anyhow. BTW, Bass Gear Mag tested the LM2 (identical power amp i believe) and it output approx 200 watts @ 8 ohms and approx 400w @ 4 ohms.

Also, if you get the 4 ohm version you won't be tempted to spend another $1000+ on a second cab you may never really need.

Like rpsands said so, todays 4x10 cabs can handle 500 watts realistically. Do you (Sparky Mark) have any problems with clipping? How much can you turn up your LMIII until the "Clip-LED" lights up ?

BTW...what the heck is "SPL's" ?

Thanks for the advices so far !

[Sparky Mark]

Clipping at the input should never be an issue. The clip LED indicates whether the input is being overdriven by the bass guitar output. You adjust the input gain knob to suit any particular bass guitar. With my Stingray which has quite a high output the input knob gets to about 12 o'clock before it lights up on heavy playing. With my lower output Thumb, the input knob gets to about 2 o'clock, but it depends how much EQ you add with the bass' onboard preamp. This just means that with the 'ray you get to the playing volume earlier on the output knob, but the ultimate maximum volume achieveable will be the same. Other than in a rehearsal situation I've never come close to using the LM3/104HF at full volume, and even then it was just quick blasts to see where its limits were, which isn't something I'd recommend too often if you want to remain friends with the rest of the band, it really is that loud!

SPL's = Sound Pressure Levels. Cheers.

[lemon3007]

Thanks Sparky Mark!
your experiences speak for themselves!

Cheers.

[kevbassman]

Originally Posted by KJung

Great minds think alike

Totally agree. When I play outdoor venues I use my Ep UL410 cab (4ohms) & my main outdoor amp, Genz Benz 1200..........that rig will cover anything. My little rig set up is a home made 2 x 10 cab that I loaded with Emience speakers from a Bergantino cab I owned. I use my Markbass LMII with that set-up.........and that cab handles the gigs fine. Never had any problem. Love both set-ups.

4ohms is fine for single cab. If using more than 2 cabs....8 ohms is the route to go.