markbass combo 2 10 at GC, am I nuts?

[suraci]

I originally bought that Markbass combo amp 4 years ago.. then I returned it because i thought I could not get a certain growl that was not sweet enough- the higher end of amp seemed antiseptic. I had been hoping to sort of mimic a Jaco growl, which I can do on certain amps !
Now, I really really liked the lows- (I don't play as loud as many here- so 2x10 or 1 15 is all I need.)
I got surprisingly loud, for its small footprint and total weight.

BTW I spent a good deal of time with the Genz Benz stuff. great articulation- but something was missing in the low mids. only the Streamliner had a fullness that all other Genz Benz lacked- but the Streamliner was not versatile enough for me!!

So why would I come back to Markbass with nasty highs?
Well stay with me, I discovered something new about the markbass 2 10 the other day at GC
I liked the punchy mids a lot. So that's 2 out of 3 - good lows, and nice punch.. ( for me a bass sound can be divided into 3 tonal sectors low mid high- and BALANCING them is the ticket! )
AND another discovery: I really liked this quirky "x factor" ( I am hoping someone can shed a little light in that ) ... eg. comparing it to a 2 x 10 Berg going through an "iAmp" ( not sure of spelling- but this is an excellent popular combo ) head, The iamp -berg combo, was almost too clean for this older player. Less personality, less quirkiness. That is a tough call , clean or quirky with personality, warts and all.
The markbass probably has what I characterize as "un sweet highs" ( coming from a tube guy mentality- I grew up on Ampeg B15's )
so I asked an expert** ( ** he is a bass builder, amp builder and excellent bass player and worked for LEO F !!- that is an expert for me ) about it. He said this... ' if you got rid of what you dislike about it- those harsh highs - , you would also lose the personality that you DO like in the mids... the "x factor" '.
With this markbass combo, I find on my vint J bass, that I can easily coax all manner of interesting ( not useful for bass lines, as much as for qwirky solos - but still , it is fun ) sounds out of it, that I SEEM to be barred from with many other amp/cabs.

I can't find another combo that is equally deep, quite punchy AND has that quirky x factor where harmonics and mid tones jump out in unexpected ways... quite different with purer amps.

Is this quirky quality, the result of imbalance in cab, or maybe some kind of slightly overdriven pre,? Or maybe Markbass electronics?? I ask, because I could maybe recreate what Mark bass has done but in a more clean platform like the Berg with a clean amp... but I kind of doubt it.
Anyway, I am seriously thinking of this: Markbass CMD 102P 300/500W 2x10 - am I nuts?

[Hobobob]

It's that friggin piezo tweeter. Find a way to remove it from the circuit, and you may be a lot happier.

[suraci]

Hobobob- if you need a place to stay 0_0 thanks man, how about going a step further and putting a sweet tweeter in that has an attenuator??? Thank you Bob, forget the place to stay, you prolly like your freedom LOL

[suraci]

Is there any way to have an American tech work on this amp???

[T-MOST]

I like it just the way it is!

[suraci]

Originally Posted by T-MOST

I like it just the way it is!

DO you know any of my old buddies in Jersey NYC
?
John Tropea
Harold Zislin
Gerard Guida
Ronnie Hand ( left us a few years ago rip )
Dave Spinozza
The twins the Argese bros ( Louie played keys with Frank Bennett also left us RIP )
Vinnie Corrao

So you don't feel markbass is harsh in the highs??

[GrowlerBox]

CMD103H? Has the compression driver rather than piezo which it sounds like you may prefer. There is also a 112 version, and the Jeff Berlin, a 15 without any tweeter at all.

[suraci]

Growler IS a compression driver less harsh?? Thank you and the 103H IS AVAILABLE?

[GrowlerBox]

Originally Posted by suraci

Growler IS a compression driver less harsh?? Thank you and the 103H IS AVAILABLE?

Piezos needn't be harsh, in my view, but those in the Markbass cabs are widely considered to be so -- I haven't heard them myself (I have an F1 head, but have never used their cabs).

The 103H is listed on the Markbass website, and it's even available here in New Zealand, so I imagine you could get hold of one. The only way to be sure, of course, is to try various versions out and see what you like.

And don't forget the VLE control! -- it sounds like you might like a bit of that engaged, while keeping the VPF completely off.

[chuck norriss]

You're not nuts; you're like the rest of us who can't afford an amp that provides everything we want, plugged straight in, so we're forced to supplement our compromises with effects pedals and preamps and pickups.

[suraci]

Any chance my new TB colleague can touch upon VPF off.. why and a touch VLE on?????
Thank you

[suraci]

Originally Posted by chuck norriss

You're not nuts; you're like the rest of us who can't afford an amp that provides everything we want, plugged straight in, so we're forced to supplement our compromises with effects pedals and preamps and pickups.

And name one amp cab that does it all, please/ money no object? I don't think it exists.. thank you

[BurningSkies]

Originally Posted by GrowlerBox

And don't forget the VLE control! -- it sounds like you might like a bit of that engaged, while keeping the VPF completely off.

I agree. A lot of confusion from people in understanding how the VPF and VLE work. The VPF is a contour control that boosts the sub-lows and the very brightest end of the spectrum while attenuating a wide swath of the mids. The VLE rolls back the highs, but does so in a way that's slightly different from a traditional passive bass tone control.

Effective use of both of these controls opens up a variety of tones between each knob and a balancing act of them together.

[suraci]

Originally Posted by BurningSkies

I agree. A lot of confusion from people in understanding how the VPF and VLE work. The VPF is a contour control that boosts the sub-lows and the very brightest end of the spectrum while attenuating a wide swath of the mids. The VLE rolls back the highs, but does so in a way that's slightly different from a traditional passive bass tone control.

Effective use of both of these controls opens up a variety of tones between each knob and a balancing act of them together.

Did you happen to suffer the indignity of a Nazi telling you " I know noTHING " well, did you?? ha ha ha

Are you hinting that spending a lot of time with this markbass combo amp, I might figure a way to avoid the harshness- with skilled use of an admixture of both of those knobs??

[TC.65]

The GB Streamliner is more versatile than you might think. It takes some time to learn how all the controls interact with each other.

[BurningSkies]

Originally Posted by suraci

Did you happen to suffer the indignity of a Nazi telling you " I know noTHING " well, did you?? ha ha ha

Are you hinting that spending a lot of time with this markbass combo amp, I might figure a way to avoid the harshness- with skilled use of an admixture of both of those knobs??

No hints. The VLE (Vintage Loudspeaker Emulation) can tame your tweeter when used carefully. When I ran my LMII, I'd use a little bit of the VPF to get more of the deep lows, then I'd add a bit of the VLE to get rid of the upper treble that the VPF provided. So, you can see, that they function together to provide some sounds that you can't get from the tone compliment by itself. If you don't like the crispy upper high end, you can warm it up a little with judicious use of the VLE, but a little goes a long way.

[GrowlerBox]

Originally Posted by suraci

Any chance my new TB colleague can touch upon VPF off.. why and a touch VLE on?????
Thank you

The manuals for any of the Markbass heads have a good descriptions of these tone controls, but simply put, the VLE is a shelving filter that cuts 20 dB from the high frequencies; the more you engage it, the wider the band it rolls off, all the way into the mids if you go far enough. The VPF cuts mids centred at ~350 Hz and adds a small boost to the lows and highs. They can work pretty well together, and the Micromark combos have only these two filters.

Edit: BurningSkies has it covered -- I have to stop getting distracted while I'm in the middle of a reply!

Originally Posted by suraci

And name one amp cab that does it all, please/ money no object? I don't think it exists.. thank you

If by "amp cab" you mean combo, then no such animal. If you mean just cabinet, have a look at fEARfuls -- they reproduce pretty much the full spectrum produced by your bass in about as flat a manner as is possible.

[suraci]

Originally Posted by BurningSkies

No hints. The VLE (Vintage Loudspeaker Emulation) can tame your tweeter when used carefully. When I ran my LMII, I'd use a little bit of the VPF to get more of the deep lows, then I'd add a bit of the VLE to get rid of the upper treble that the VPF provided. So, you can see, that they function together to provide some sounds that you can't get from the tone compliment by itself. If you don't like the crispy upper high end, you can warm it up a little with judicious use of the VLE, but a little goes a long way.

Question: In an effort to get more "natural low end" ( by NOT using the amp to add lows ) I added a MArkbass single 15 to the combo amps 2 10's. When I did this, I sadly LOST the charm of the punchy 2 10's.

Make sense?

[GrowlerBox]

Originally Posted by suraci

Question: In an effort to get more "natural low end" ( by NOT using the amp to add lows ) I added a MArkbass single 15 to the combo amps 2 10's. When I did this, I sadly LOST the charm of the punchy 2 10's.

Make sense?

Yes. That's why there are at least 3 threads a day during the course of which punters are advised against mixing driver sizes without properly-designed crossovers.

[suraci]

Originally Posted by GrowlerBox

The manuals for any of the

If by "amp cab" you mean combo, then no such animal. If you mean just cabinet, have a look at fEARfuls -- they reproduce pretty much the full spectrum produced by your bass in about as flat a manner as is possible.

fEARful is flat. "To be flat or not be Flat ( not Bb ) that is the question.
NOT flat, translates to what might be called personality-
"Ampegs version of woofy" or " Fender's version of punchy", and all odd kinds of charteristics- that boil down to "the Ampeg sound" " the SWR sound" " the Eden sound" and the markbass sound
There is a strong trend towards attempting the converse- supposedly flat.. as possible.

My problem with flat is for elec bass I like oddities.
Personality.
That is why I am actually leaning towards the quirky Markbass combo over the Berg 2 10 clean scene.

If one goes clean hi fi and all that, how does one add personality? Boxes have there own kind of a VEIL over the character of the sound; where you are CONSTANTLY hearing that particular boxes veil or personality I suppose whether you wish it or not.

Boxes in my limited experience with them cover up a certain thing about an amp/ cab that I do not necessarily want.

So, what? A multitude of pre's and boxes to add multiple personalites, plus a clean BYPASS for true clean???