Markbass F1 / Hartke Hydrive 410?

[jjk2007]

Hey TB, I have the opportunity to pick up a mint hartke on the cheap from a friend of a friend. Problem is, they live on the other side of L.A. and I don't have the time to drive there to check it out for a few weeks. I know one of the cons (for me as I'd like a single cab) is the 8 ohm factor, but I'd also like to hear if any F1 players have used this cab and what your thoughts were on it. I play a Peavey Cirrus 5 string, do lots of church stuff and lots of Pop and R&B stuff too. No extreme EQing and no effects either. Thanks for the help!

[pasta4lnch]

hhmm I thought all hydrives had the switchable 4 to 8 ohms like the 112 . . . guess not

[jjk2007]

I don't know. I'll have to see if I can get pics of the back. That would be sweet though.

[TRichardsbass]

Originally Posted by jjk2007

Hey TB, I have the opportunity to pick up a mint hartke on the cheap from a friend of a friend. Problem is, they live on the other side of L.A. and I don't have the time to drive there to check it out for a few weeks. I know one of the cons (for me as I'd like a single cab) is the 8 ohm factor, but I'd also like to hear if any F1 players have used this cab and what your thoughts were on it. I play a Peavey Cirrus 5 string, do lots of church stuff and lots of Pop and R&B stuff too. No extreme EQing and no effects either. Thanks for the help!

First, the HyDrive 112 is the only cab in the Hartke line that currently has the switchable impedance between 4 and 8 ohms.

The HyDrive 410 performs well with my LH500, which is 500W at 4 ohm, 350W at 8 ohm. I've also had an Orange Terror Bass (500W) run through it as well, no issues.

For your style of music the HX410 should be fine. The hybrid cones are a very nice blend of old school paper and old school aluminum. I find my 410 to have all the brightness and clarity you expect from a traditional Hartke all aluminum cone system, but with some added warmth on the lows like you would get with paper.

Go to the Hartke website and download the manual on the HX410, that should help you. I had a ton of conversations with Larry before I got my 410, because I was worried about underpowering a "1000W" handling cab. After a long discussion and now having used it for well over a year, it does in fact handle "lower" power well with no issues. Actually, it sounds better with the lower power of my LH500 then when I ran my LH500 through a friends Ampeg 4X10 at the same impedance.

I'm sorry I can't give you specific info on the F1 through it, but my LH500 is darn near identical to the F1 in power specs.

I hope this helps. Oh, and the one thing you will LOVE about Hartke cabs is that they are built to withstand atomic tour bombs. These cabs can take one heck of a beat down by roadies and still perform like they were new.

[pasta4lnch]

Apparently you're right Tom - seems odd though, that's kind of a cool feature - I wonder why it's not on all of them? (well, except the 810 )

[jjk2007]

Hey, thanks Tom. I might have to try and make some time and see if I can track one of these down a little closer to try out. Who knows! Any other tips or experiences welcome.

[TRichardsbass]

Originally Posted by pasta4lnch

Apparently you're right Tom - seems odd though, that's kind of a cool feature - I wonder why it's not on all of them? (well, except the 810 )

I think the reason for only the 1X12 having the switchable impedance is because of a couple of things:

1 - Most people use the 4X10 and 1X15 in parallel, making them both 4 ohm, and therefore pretty much putting them at the max power for just about most applications. That is normal for most manufacturers.

2 - The additional circuits needed to make the 4X10 switchable are not super complicated, however it would require more hardware then you could justify in the price point. I would suspect that possibly in the future you might see the 1X15 with switchable impedance because it is similar to the 1X12. However, its better if Larry answers that directly. (And I'd love to know myself

[aledeville]

Originally Posted by jjk2007

I know one of the cons (for me as I'd like a single cab) is the 8 ohm factor

What? This is a con for you? Oh I see, you won't be able to pull alllllll thheeeee watttttttsssss out of your amp. Poor you

Come on, in comparison with 8 ohm, 4 ohm gives you +1.5dB. It's almost nothing.

[jjk2007]

Sorry if I offended you aleville. Sheesh!! I'm just thinking I might as well be as efficient as I can. Headroom is headroom and I'm not sure on the F1, but I've heard on the LMII/III that the signal starts to get squashed when being pushed hard into an 8 ohm cab. Now go whine in someone else's thread.

[ErnieD]

....don't go here pls:
"I had a ton of conversations with Larry before I got my 410, because I was worried about underpowering a "1000W" handling cab."

Now, I really liked the look/specs of that Hydrive 410 cab. I found a new one on Ebay that was nicely discounted at a online store, I was real close to pulling the trigger on it. Then I read a few threads here where some were blowing drivers in em. I was then eyeing one a TBer had one for sale but he had to stall the sale cause he too blew a speaker while gigging it.

I still liked the price and specs of the cab and that one on Ebay was still there for that price, free ship, etc. I then went to a Sunday jam where this cat there, known for his love of very heavy iron in his rigs, had a GB Shuttle 9.0, that surprised me and he really dug it. He also had the Hydrive 410. I thought, great, I can now try before I buy. Then he told me it was not hooked up and had just had it there to raise his Ampeg 410 higher, he blew a driver in it at a gig the Friday before. He was very dissappointed at that.

Well, all this kinda took the wind outta my sails to snag that Hydrive on the "bay. Maybe there were some bad driver issues, not sure, have not heard/read what the fixes were. I ended up buying a second used, Epifani UL410. Then I realized when I looked back that the Hydrive 410 is a sealed cab. Correct? I've had issues with my tone in the past trying out sealed cabs so prolly best I never bit on the Hydrive back then. But if they are working for y'all cool, I still think its a cool looking cab, so carry on. OH, and if the cab does hold up for you, that F1 should make it sound very nice, I imagine. I like my F1 and LMII heads alot thru my 8 ohm, UL410's. But ideally, a 4 ohm cab with those heads, is well ideal some say.

[jjk2007]

I hear ya Ernie. I've seen some of the driver issues you've been talking about. I guess one of the positives in all this is Larry Hartke's presence here on TB. Seems like he's pretty quick to jump in and help out. And I'd still like to hear if any TBer's have paired the F1 with the cab!!

[aledeville]

Hey, I'm not whining, but IMO is this whole Watt discussion heavily overrated. The F1 kicks ass whether it's with 4 or 8 ohm.

[TRichardsbass]

Originally Posted by ErnieD

....don't go here pls:
"I had a ton of conversations with Larry before I got my 410, because I was worried about underpowering a "1000W" handling cab."

Now, I really liked the look/specs of that Hydrive 410 cab. I found a new one on Ebay that was nicely discounted at a online store, I was real close to pulling the trigger on it. Then I read a few threads here where some were blowing drivers in em. I was then eyeing one a TBer had one for sale but he had to stall the sale cause he too blew a speaker while gigging it.

I still liked the price and specs of the cab and that one on Ebay was still there for that price, free ship, etc. I then went to a Sunday jam where this cat there, known for his love of very heavy iron in his rigs, had a GB Shuttle 9.0, that surprised me and he really dug it. He also had the Hydrive 410. I thought, great, I can now try before I buy. Then he told me it was not hooked up and had just had it there to raise his Ampeg 410 higher, he blew a driver in it at a gig the Friday before. He was very dissappointed at that.

Well, all this kinda took the wind outta my sails to snag that Hydrive on the "bay. Maybe there were some bad driver issues, not sure, have not heard/read what the fixes were. I ended up buying a second used, Epifani UL410. Then I realized when I looked back that the Hydrive 410 is a sealed cab. Correct? I've had issues with my tone in the past trying out sealed cabs so prolly best I never bit on the Hydrive back then. But if they are working for y'all cool, I still think its a cool looking cab, so carry on. OH, and if the cab does hold up for you, that F1 should make it sound very nice, I imagine. I like my F1 and LMII heads alot thru my 8 ohm, UL410's. But ideally, a 4 ohm cab with those heads, is well ideal some say.

I went there, and that was because I've used rigs that were underpowered and had crap come out of the speakers, had one where I didn't realize I was underpowering it and did a number on it, and in this case i was clearly going to well "underpower" a cab with my amp at max (350W vice 1000W just by the numbers).

I have read about the driver issues, however I have never experienced them. Honestly, I've been gigging my HX410 now for well over two years and have never had any issues. It could be that I've always paired it with Hartke products. I've run the Orange Terror Bass head through it once, and no problems.

One of the things I have always done in my 30+ years of playing is try not to play a mixed rig. I know that normally products are developed with the companies product line in mind, so there is usually never an issue with that. That is my preference. I have never really found the need to buy one guys amp and another guys cab. That's just me.

So I'm sorry if I "went there", but I am being honest. I did not want to have a rig where by just looking at the spec sheet it looked like I would be doing something that I know is really not the best. Sometimes you need to talk to someone who knows the product inside and out.

[jjk2007]

Originally Posted by aledeville

Hey, I'm not whining, but IMO is this whole Watt discussion heavily overrated. The F1 kicks ass whether it's with 4 or 8 ohm.

Hey, that's great and I'm glad to hear that. And I get the diff in DB's between an 8 ohm and 4 ohm load. The cab being 8 ohm is in no way a deal breaker for me, but I think if given the option of 4 or 8 just about everyone would choose a 4 ohm cab if they are going to run it as a stand alone, regardless of what the amp is right?

[aledeville]

Yeah, if you are using a 410 as a stand alone - which is IMO enough for every situation - then you could consider to choose the 4 Ohm version.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by aledeville

What? This is a con for you? Oh I see, you won't be able to pull alllllll thheeeee watttttttsssss out of your amp. Poor you

Come on, in comparison with 8 ohm, 4 ohm gives you +1.5dB. It's almost nothing.

With a large cab like a 410, and a relatively low wattage head like the F1, the 8ohm/4ohm thing can be a relatively big thing. Yes, it will give you that 2db more volume, but also will allow the F1 (or any relatively low wattage into 8ohm head) to much less likely reach its power amp limiting when really pushed. You will notice this as a little bit more headroom and volume, but mostly as a wider, more open, less compressed low end, and less compression if you really dig in.

Of course, if you aren't pushing the volume, this is a moot point, as it is with a small one driver cab, most of which can't handle the extra watts anyway. With a 410 and an amp that is putting out less than 300 watts into 8ohms, it can make quite a difference.

That combinatio should work fine for the OP as long as he isn't playing stupid loud.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by TRichardsbass

I went there, and that was because I've used rigs that were underpowered and had crap come out of the speakers, had one where I didn't realize I was underpowering it and did a number on it, and in this case i was clearly going to well "underpower" a cab with my amp at max (350W vice 1000W just by the numbers).

Just FYI, the 'wattage' rating of a cab has nothing to do with how much wattage it needs to get up to full volume, just the maximum wattage that can be pumped into it prior to the voice coil melting! The more important number is sensitivity, which you really don't know until enough users post about the performance of a cab.

I've been gigging an F1 and now an F500 for a number of years, and love the tight, punchy, bright-but-not-harsh tone of that amp. You will get most of the performance out of that head and the 8ohm 410 that the OP is considering. The main time that you will hear the difference between an 8ohm and 4ohm large cab with a head like the F1 is on slap transients and very high volume digging in, where you will hit the amp safety limiting a bit early at 8ohms versus 4ohms (i.e., the headroom thing). Absolute volume won't be that much different, as posted above.

[aledeville]

Damn, I'm feelin' old... F1 is a low wattage head?

[KJung]

Originally Posted by aledeville

Damn, I'm feelin' old... F1 is a low wattage head?

It all interacts. With these heavy duty neo drivers coming out now with the amazing spec's, they can both use and, more importantly, handle a bit more wattage than back in the day. Again, more wattage has little to do with volume... but when you combine an appropriate amount of wattage and a cabinet with a driver(s) that has both good thermal (i.e., the cabinet wattage rating) AND mechanical specs (all the xmax and xmin stuff that the more technical oriented guys post about), it can really be something.

A bit off topic for the OP (but I think he had his question answered), here is a great example IMO... the new little bitty Audiokinesis Thunderchild 112 cab and the F500 (basically the F1 with some more bling). That cab uses a very heavy duty eminence drive, OEM spec'd to 4ohms. So, it is basically a '450 watt cab' that can actually USE all 450 watts (i.e., it won't burn up, and it won't fart out), and is designed to be optimally powered by one of the nice 450-600 watt micro heads at 4ohms (put another way, we can finally now have 'loud, small, low', versus the traditioan 'pick two of the three').

Here's a clip with pretty good sound quality. Listen to the low end coming out of that little bitty box... and it gets loud as heck. Classic case of where 4ohms can really work in a small box.... wide, deep low end with virtually no compression. That big horn (some similar cabs use a paper cone mid driver) is needed since 'there is no free lunch' regarding low end and top end trade-off. A driver that thunders out the lows will not perform well up top. This execution takes care of that by using a high quality compression driver crossed over very low, and a big horn to make sure you can hear those upper mids off axis nicely.

Again, sorry for the OT to the OP.

Here's a clip of what I'm talking about, if anyone is interested (alder/RW J bass and the F500 run completely flat... so identical to the F1 in theis clip). The Greenboy fEarful designs and various other cabs from Low Down Sound, Avatar, etc. have adopted this logic and general design also:

http://www.youtube.com/Kjungbass#p/u/7/0WOhxSFoiB4

[groov'ster]

I cant comment on the Hydrive series since I have never played through them. I will say that for my home practice rig I use an F1 through a Hartke XT 4*10 XT cab.

It sounds great IMHO and has plenty of volume to be usable live also and I have done that. Of course I love my F1 and to me it would sound good plugged up to a washtub