MarkBass Frequency Response

armywalaby · #1 01-31-2013, 09:25 AM

So I was looking at some MarkBass stuff to upgrade my rig from the Acoustic B300H head and an old Peavey 2x15 that is probably older than I am. Problem is, the lowest frequency handling I see on the MarkBass stuff is about 40hz? That's no good for me! I'm a 5 string player pretty much exclusively anymore. Got a few fours I won't get rid of for sentimental value, but I gig out with my 5 string always. Is there a product of theirs that I am not seeing that can handle 31hz or less, or should I start looking elsewhere for my upgrade?

KJung · #2 01-31-2013, 09:27 AM

Virtually NO cab will reproduce 31hz, period. Most of the sound of the B string is in the upper harmonics, and any decent bass cab that typically starts to roll off at 50 or 60hz (even those 40hz roll-off specs are often -10db, which is the point at which the cab doesn't put out much sound at all) will sound great.

It is much more about the quality and mechanical specs of the drivers than the absolute low end tuning.

Don't sweat the 31hs fundamental of a single note on your bass (the open B string).

rodl2005 · #3 01-31-2013, 09:41 AM

+1
Also, Markbass cabs handle a good amount of low B especially their 410 cabs.
I've been more impressed with these than any of their other cabs.

armywalaby · #4 01-31-2013, 09:44 AM

This makes me feel better. I was looking at a CMD 121P and maybe another 12 to go with it....Pacman has inspired me to try out 12s again.

scottfeldstein · #5 01-31-2013, 09:44 AM

Some cabs purport to get down to 30 hz, but that doesn't impress me. That's too low to be useful in my opinion. I don't want it muddying up my stage monitoring and I don't want it sucking up all my watts, either. Lots of great sounding cabs don't do much below 40 or 50 hz.

And it's true about psychoacoustics. When I reach for a D or a C on that low B string, what you really hear is the second order harmonic. Your brain fills in the fundamental automagically. I had my engineer actually show me this a couple of weeks ago. We were listening to a mix and giving feedback and I said "whoa, I sound really muddy. Can you put a high pass filter on that and drop everything below like 50 hz?" And he says there isn't anything below 50 hz on that track. He solos it and..damn. He's right. It was an illusion.

**MostlyBass** · #6 01-31-2013, 09:47 AM

When I had a CMD121P I wasn't happy with it's 'oomph' or handling my low B. I traded it in for a Jeff Berlin model and the difference is amazing. LOTS of low end.

KJung · #7 01-31-2013, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by armywalaby

This makes me feel better. I was looking at a CMD 121P and maybe another 12 to go with it....Pacman has inspired me to try out 12s again.

Remember that even though frequency response down to the fundamental of the lowest notes on the B string (or the E string for that matter) don't really matter, but the ability of a cab to push a lot of volume at 50hz DOES matter.

That very small 121P cab is actually quite impressive on low end tone, but it is not going to slam on the gig. With two, you should be able to do a moderate volume gig with decent B string response. Just remember, that is a very small cab, and isn't going to push a ton of air down there.

Again, 2 x 112 will perform quite well.

DiabolusInMusic · #8 01-31-2013, 09:54 AM

My markbass cab handles my 6 no problems at all, you'll be fine.

Have you compared cabs though or are you just looking at MB for lightweight? I like my markbass cab but their cabs have a noticeable mid range bump that you may not like. I recommend their heads 10 times out of 10 but their cabs are not for everyone.

armywalaby · #9 01-31-2013, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJung

Remember that even though frequency response down to the fundamental of the lowest notes on the B string (or the E string for that matter) don't really matter, but the ability of a cab to push a lot of volume at 50hz DOES matter.

That very small 121P cab is actually quite impressive on low end tone, but it is not going to slam on the gig. With two, you should be able to do a moderate volume gig with decent B string response. Just remember, that is a very small cab, and isn't going to push a ton of air down there.

Again, 2 x 112 will perform quite well.

That's what I was hoping for. Like I was saying, Pacmans 12s really inspired me to make the switch.

B-string · #10 01-31-2013, 10:09 AM

I'm one that does not care for MB cabs though I have not tried the Berlin model. They sound good to me up close but, to my ears, really weird out front in a not so good way. If you have PA support not such a big deal?

KJung · #11 01-31-2013, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B-string

I'm one that does not care for MB cabs though I have not tried the Berlin model. They sound good to me up close but, to my ears, really weird out front in a not so good way. If you have PA support not such a big deal?

IME there is little similarity in tone across the Markbass cab line. They range from 'scooped and sizzly' to dark and chewy, to very mid present. So, hard to generalize.

The little 121P if pretty impressive... massive xmax (those drivers piston like heck), good low end response, but a very sizzly top end due to that piezo tweeter (don't like that much edit: If you are using a Markbass head, not much of an issue, since all MB heads have a variable lo pass filter to control the upper treble. However, those piezo's are prone to blowing out when really pushed... I don't recommend them). T

The Jeff Berlin 15 is warm and fat and even... love it.

For the price, in the US, you can buy a Berg, so I was never much interested in them.

If I was on a budget, those GK NEO112's are probably the best bang for the buck in a lightweight 112.

dincz · #12 01-31-2013, 10:18 AM

Here's a few seconds of 31Hz - fundamental only, no harmonics. It doesn't sound very musically useful does it?

Russell L · #13 01-31-2013, 10:48 AM

My 121H combo could not handle a moderately loud rock gig. If I tried to get more bottm it would run out of excursion. Bought a LMIII head and a 151P cab and it's like night and day as far as how much low-end at a higher volume it can handle. The Berlin would do about the same, and with an additional NY151 cab would be awesome. The Randy Jackson cabs are nice, too, so I hear. Just FYI.

armywalaby · #14 01-31-2013, 02:08 PM

Price isn't that much of an issue.....I get GC employee pricing. :-p Thanks for all the feedback, TB!

**bass4worship** · #15 01-31-2013, 02:58 PM

Gigging with my 121p for over three years now. I love this combo and use it on all my gigs with great result. Played many Gospel shows with it and got great compliment on it sound.

Bassmec · #16 01-31-2013, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottfeldstein

Some cabs purport to get down to 30 hz, but that doesn't impress me. That's too low to be useful in my opinion. I don't want it muddying up my stage monitoring and I don't want it sucking up all my watts, either. Lots of great sounding cabs don't do much below 40 or 50 hz.

And it's true about psychoacoustics. When I reach for a D or a C on that low B string, what you really hear is the second order harmonic. Your brain fills in the fundamental automagically. I had my engineer actually show me this a couple of weeks ago. We were listening to a mix and giving feedback and I said "whoa, I sound really muddy. Can you put a high pass filter on that and drop everything below like 50 hz?" And he says there isn't anything below 50 hz on that track. He solos it and..damn. He's right. It was an illusion.

Recording, I like to look for any clean usable power i can get in the frequencies below 100-150Hz which is where I find the centre of boom and mud in my bass and gear to be, so I judiciously cut there at a narrowish q I let the vagaries of all tube amps look after the bass cut off frequency on bass guitar if I can.

Arjank · #17 02-01-2013, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottfeldstein

Your brain fills in the fundamental automagically

+1 great quote and totally true!

AlexanderB · #18 02-01-2013, 12:58 AM

"Missing fundamental" works pretty well.
Still, it IS amazing and a relevation hearing your instrument through a rig (bass rig or PA) that can reproduce its whole range with clarity and power.
But I agree it CAN (does not have to, though) create issues on stage and interfere with the PA...

AlexanderB · #19 02-01-2013, 01:01 AM

Full and flat reproduction of your five stringer could be done through ACME cabinets. Cost a bit more than some more average gear, do not get very loud and require bigger amps than regular cabs.

figuredbass · #20 02-01-2013, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dincz

Here's a few seconds of 31Hz - fundamental only, no harmonics. It doesn't sound very musically useful does it?

Maybe not merely by itself, although it is reminiscent of the organ pedal in the intro of Strauss' Also Sprach Zarathustra (more commonly known as the theme from 2001: A Space Odyssey)! But mixed in with the second and third harmonic it's absolute heaven - or hell - depending on which of those two "places" you're musically expressing...

While the point is well taken that in most bass rigs the fundamentals in the 30 - 40Hz are not actually that pronounced compared to the upper partials, I like to have a fair amount of these low fundamentals mixed in with the upper harmonics or to me my bass doesn't feel sufficiently grounded. As much as it's important to cut "through" the mix I like to get "under" the band as well. I guess I'm "the lowest of the low".