Markbass head compared to Genz

[suraci]

I just purchased a Streamliner 900,
On comparing it to an SVT CL through a ported ampeg 410 HLF , I was surprised to find the svt had more clarity. Or highs or high mids ( I am not technically sure - generally more bright ) than the Streamliner!
I have also tried a markbass f1 through same deeply voiced cab
I liked things about the F1 as well - punchy and tamed the overly bass heavy cab.
I also tried a shuttle 6 and it actually was a good blend of opposites ( a thin low end on shuttle matched with a deep cab )
I figure there is no perfect amp

I am not clear about the differences between markbass f1 and LM111
and the GB stuff

I know that GB stuff has variations with streamliner by far the deepest
And shuttle 6 the thinnest on the low end

So comparisons between MB AND GB are the thrust of this
Thanks

[KJung]

Originally Posted by suraci

I am not clear about the differences between markbass f1 and LM111
and the GB stuff

So comparisons between MB AND GB are the thrust of this
Thanks

Per your two primary questions.

F1 versus F500... same exact tone, with the F500 having a greatly improved feature set, included mute, a full featured DI with pre post switch and DI volume, and two bands of semi-parametric mids. IMO, the best micro out there if you are looking for a relatively neutral tone platform with plenty of wump, stellar reliability record, small footprint, etc.

LMII/III.... unusual class A/B power amp execution for a micro. Relatively similar to the F1/F500, but warmer, fatter, smoother, creamier, and not quite as much maximum volume. The primary difference between the LMII and III is that the III has a more fully featured DI.

Here is a comparison clip I did of the F1 versus the LMII (which would also cover the F500 versus LMIII differences).

Markbass LMII and F1 powering the Bergantino AE410 with the Alleva-Coppolo LM5 - YouTube

While the F500 is my primary gigging head (it replaced the F1 I used before the F500 came out, so it has been a few years for me), I LOVE my Streamliner also, and it gives my P Bass a very traditional, fat, clean, meaty, tubey tone. The ratio of the bass to mid EQ will really impact the voicing, so don't assume you know what it really sounds like right out of the box with the knobs set to noon. There is much interaction between the gain, volume, bass and mid controls (just like many all tube amps), and while the head has a signature sound, it does have a nice variation of those big lows with a very smooth midrange and tubey/clear/sweet top end.

I have never been a huge fan of the Shuttles (and as you say, the 6 is a bit anemic IMO), but the Shuttle 9 will get you in the same tonal area as the F1/F500, with a touch more volume, and a bit more tube brightness in the upper mids if you want. The EQ is quite limited for me though (I find the 'all or nothing' voicing buttons not very useful, and the single band of semiparametric mids was never particularly satisfying for me, since that amp takes a bit of tweaking to sound good to me, versus the 'perfect out of the box flat tone' of the F1 and LMII (for my tone, anyway).

The Shuttles are being discontinued and revamped within the next two weeks, so keep your eye out on the new models. My guess is, they will be smokin'.

The 'king of the Genz amp mountain' is, IMO, the wonderful Shuttle Max 9.2.... same power section as the Streamliner, same great limiting circuit that gives you a lot of headroom when pushed and a great, controlled low end, and MASSIVE EQ/Tonal options with the dual FET/Tube preamps, the variable voicing controls, and the dual semi-parametric mid controls on each channel. It is not a micro, but is 'micro light'. I could be VERY happy with that head, and quite frankly, if I was 'starting over' on my amplification, I'd probably just get one of those and be done!

IMO and quite a bit of IME!

[suraci]

I appreciate thanks

About streamliner.
I don't truly understand the musical effect of gain volume and master
Between these three. I am hoping to gain some subtle tone differences
Any suggestions on what would be useless vs creative settings ?

How would you compare two of your favorites
F500. And shuttle 9.2?

[suraci]

I forgot to ask. What about mb cabs vs gb?
I bought a neo gb 12
There is a certain "thing" with Mids that I got on mb combo 210 w little mark amp
I forgot the model. Cd102 maybe

Generally how do mb and gb cabs compare tonally speaking?

[KJung]

Originally Posted by suraci

I appreciate thanks

About streamliner.
I don't truly understand the musical effect of gain volume and master
Between these three. I am hoping to gain some subtle tone differences
Any suggestions on what would be useless vs creative settings ?

How would you compare two of your favorites
F500. And shuttle 9.2?

The gain knob is your 'warmth knob'... the higher you set it, the more the first tube stage is pushed. The 'gain' button provides higher input levels to that first gain stage, and is useful if you have a low output bass, or 'light technique' and want to grit/grind up the tone. The 'volume' control allows you to control the signal going into the last state of the amp prior to the master volume control, so the general plan would be to lower that volume control a touch as you increase the gain stage. Of course, the master just sets your overall volume when you get the EQ and gain stages set to your liking. And remember, Genz uses a kind of 'audio taper' master volume control, so that amp doesn't start really cooking until that master is well past noon with most gain settings.

No wrong or right with it. Start out with the gain and volume at around noon, and then mess with the ratio. With my relatively soft technique, combined with relatively hot output basses, and my goal of a warm but still clean tone, my 'starting' gain structure settings are the gain and volume each at about 1 o'clock. That gives me a bit of tube warmth in general, and allows that tube to 'give and grind' a bit when I really dig in.

The FET channel on the 9.2 can cop the F1's tone pretty nicely. It has a bit more mid mid punch inherently when set neutral to my ear, and doesn't have quite the low end extension. Of course, lots of EQ there, and the tube channel also, which seems a bit cleaner and more refined than the Shuttle 9. Really nice amp, and it will give you more absolute volume than the F1/F500 into 8 or 4ohms. It isn't the 'massive' 900 watt feel to me of the Mesa M6/M9, but then hardly anything is!

IMO!

[KJung]

Originally Posted by suraci

I forgot to ask. What about mb cabs vs gb?
I bought a neo gb 12
There is a certain "thing" with Mids that I got on mb combo 210 w little mark amp
I forgot the model. Cd102 maybe

Generally how do mb and gb cabs compare tonally speaking?

I'm really not that well versed with their cab line, nor the Markbass cab line. Only GTG and music store experience.

In general, I would avoid any Markbass cab that has the little piezo tweeter (some of the combos and smaller boxes). Harsh, and prone to failure. The cabs with the real compression driver type tweeters are nice, and they all sound different.

I have spent time with the Genz Neox12, and that is a good one.... very mid punchy, tight down low, relatively smooth and even up top, and loud. It is a relatively big box, but performs above and beyond most 'mainstream' 12" neo loaded cabs. Nice match with the Shuttle and Max heads IMO.

[Tunaman]

I have a max 9.2 & a Streamliner...
With that Ampeg cab you do NOT want a Streamliner, it may be too muddy... however the 9.2 tube section with that cab will sound close to the Streamliner tone you were thinking of in your head + you have the F1 FET channel. The tube section of the 9.2 is warm just not as warm as the Streamliner & is perfect for cabs that are warmer...
its the king of amps IMO

The Streamliner is a fantastic amp with the NEO cabs which lack low end & are mid heavy if you want to tame that

[hasbeen]

if you're not getting clarity, I think your gain is too high. The Streamliner is designed to be very clear and warm....like a tube, studio preamp.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by hasbeen

if you're not getting clarity, I think your gain is too high. The Streamliner is designed to be very clear and warm....like a tube, studio preamp.

Hey Roger. I think some of the comments about 'clarity', 'brightness', etc. come from the very relaxed upper mids of the Streamliner. It is what it is, and even with a massive boost at 2.5K, it will not do the 'articulation' that the Shuttles do, for example.

Not 'good versus bad', but if a player defines 'clarity' as that sort of 'hear the windings on the E string', the Streamliner is probably not the amp for them.

IMO and IME. Plenty of sparkle up top, and plenty of punch down low, but that 'relaxed smoothness' in that upper mid/lower treble is always there for me. I think that is why I like it with my P Bass so much.... it growls and punches down low, and you can put a nice edge on the attack, but it doesn't do that 'J bass grindy' thing very well to my ear.

[barrybass33]

Originally Posted by KJung

Per your two primary questions.

F1 versus F500... same exact tone, with the F500 having a greatly improved feature set, included mute, a full featured DI with pre post switch and DI volume, and two bands of semi-parametric mids. IMO, the best micro out there if you are looking for a relatively neutral tone platform with plenty of wump, stellar reliability record, small footprint, etc.

LMII/III.... unusual class A/B power amp execution for a micro. Relatively similar to the F1/F500, but warmer, fatter, smoother, creamier, and not quite as much maximum volume. The primary difference between the LMII and III is that the III has a more fully featured DI.

Here is a comparison clip I did of the F1 versus the LMII (which would also cover the F500 versus LMIII differences).

Markbass LMII and F1 powering the Bergantino AE410 with the Alleva-Coppolo LM5 - YouTube

While the F500 is my primary gigging head (it replaced the F1 I used before the F500 came out, so it has been a few years for me), I LOVE my Streamliner also, and it gives my P Bass a very traditional, fat, clean, meaty, tubey tone. The ratio of the bass to mid EQ will really impact the voicing, so don't assume you know what it really sounds like right out of the box with the knobs set to noon. There is much interaction between the gain, volume, bass and mid controls (just like many all tube amps), and while the head has a signature sound, it does have a nice variation of those big lows with a very smooth midrange and tubey/clear/sweet top end.

I have never been a huge fan of the Shuttles (and as you say, the 6 is a bit anemic IMO), but the Shuttle 9 will get you in the same tonal area as the F1/F500, with a touch more volume, and a bit more tube brightness in the upper mids if you want. The EQ is quite limited for me though (I find the 'all or nothing' voicing buttons not very useful, and the single band of semiparametric mids was never particularly satisfying for me, since that amp takes a bit of tweaking to sound good to me, versus the 'perfect out of the box flat tone' of the F1 and LMII (for my tone, anyway).

The Shuttles are being discontinued and revamped within the next two weeks, so keep your eye out on the new models. My guess is, they will be smokin'.

The 'king of the Genz amp mountain' is, IMO, the wonderful Shuttle Max 9.2.... same power section as the Streamliner, same great limiting circuit that gives you a lot of headroom when pushed and a great, controlled low end, and MASSIVE EQ/Tonal options with the dual FET/Tube preamps, the variable voicing controls, and the dual semi-parametric mid controls on each channel. It is not a micro, but is 'micro light'. I could be VERY happy with that head, and quite frankly, if I was 'starting over' on my amplification, I'd probably just get one of those and be done!

IMO and quite a bit of IME!

Very well said ken...

[Tunaman]

Oh Ken, just get the 9.2 & be done with it! HA !

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Tunaman

Oh Ken, just get the 9.2 & be done with it! HA !

I was totally set on my amplification needs, but I have an Art of Noise 15/6 on the way. That is a cab that can use a nice wump of power at 8ohms. The Streamliner will be fine, but I am in the market for a tighter, more modern voiced amp like my F500 to use with the 15/6 and my J basses.

If Genz does not have something micro in the new product line that does that, the Max 9.2 is on the short list, along with the TecAmp Puma900 and the GK MB800. The cab won't show up until well after NAMM, so I have some time to look. I know the Puma voicing works VERY well with the 15/6 executions, but that tiny little footprint with no fan worries me just a smidge with all that power. I'm assuming they are using that new 1000 watt ICE module, which looks pretty heavy duty.

[bassjam]

Originally Posted by Tunaman

I have a max 9.2 & a Streamliner...
With that Ampeg cab you do NOT want a Streamliner, it may be too muddy... however the 9.2 tube section with that cab will sound close to the Streamliner tone you were thinking of in your head + you have the F1 FET channel. The tube section of the 9.2 is warm just not as warm as the Streamliner & is perfect for cabs that are warmer...
its the king of amps IMO

The Streamliner is a fantastic amp with the NEO cabs which lack low end & are mid heavy if you want to tame that

I also have a 9.2-And as Ken said I can imagine someone just getting this and calling it a day.Just a huge toneal range and it has sounded fantastic with every cab I've ever matched it with.

One thing and I wonder if you felt the same-I really don't notice much difference at all between the tube and FET channels.Maybe a very slight difference, but not what I expected.

I also have a Markbass LMII and used to have an F1.The F1 was loud but sounded sterile to me compared to the LMII.But that said if I didn't have the LM II at the time I would have been plenty happy with the F1.

I wasn't a fan of the Shuttle 9.I wanted to like it,it just never spike to me.With my cabs at the time it sounded pretty bland-and didn't feel like 900watts to me.But really it was pretty early on in this Micro craze and I was comparing it to monster Amps like my old DB750 and an M9.Everything sounds tiny next to those guys.

I'm looking forward to seeing the new NAMM offerings-but honestly I'd have to see something way way cool to pull me away from the 9.2

[bassjam]

Originally Posted by KJung

I was totally set on my amplification needs, but I have an Art of Noise 15/6 on the way. That is a cab that can use a nice wump of power at 8ohms. The Streamliner will be fine, but I am in the market for a tighter, more modern voiced amp like my F500 to use with the 15/6 and my J basses.

If Genz does not have something micro in the new product line that does that, the Max 9.2 is on the short list, along with the TecAmp Puma900 and the GK MB800. The cab won't show up until well after NAMM, so I have some time to look. I know the Puma voicing works VERY well with the 15/6 executions, but that tiny little footprint with no fan worries me just a smidge with all that power. I'm assuming they are using that new 1000 watt ICE module, which looks pretty heavy duty.

I'll be interested to see what you think of the 15/6.I had one briefly and sent it back.For me it was pretty big and heavy vs what I gained by lugging it around.Had a beautiful bottom end but that 6pm driver overtook everything in it's way.I've thought about giving it another try now that I have the 9.2.I think it might work well-and plenty of EQ to work with.

[Tunaman]

No difference between tube & FET?
You sir are INSANE ! HA!

I EQ my FET channel to sound like an FET amp (Cut lows, boost low mids) & TUBE (Boost lows & cut low mids)... that makes the 2 sound VERY different & then I EQ from there

The Streamliner is the one amp that sounds extremely different than any other amp. I think most FETs sound close, same with 1 tube amps... shuttle, MB tube... they are all close.

[Musicman20]

If the new Genz amps don't offer me anything over the Smax 9.2, ill be doing the same and getting a Smax 9.2. All depends on NAMM.

I'm with you Ken...waiting on what NAMM brings. I could snap now and get a 9.0 on the sale, but I'd rather play it safe and check out the MB800 (if it ever arrives in the UK, and depending on its reliability) a new Genz offering of the Shuttle, and failing that Max 9.2.

[Tunaman]

I liked the MB500 but the 9.2 is WAY more flexible

1) Tone shaping
2) Semi parametric mids
3) Tube channel
4) Footswitch mute

The GIVE Boost channel of the MB800 was unimpressive

What KEN said is interesting... the new ICE 1000w model... could that make it into any products into NAMM?

[bassjam]

Originally Posted by Tunaman

No difference between tube & FET?
You sir are INSANE ! HA!

I EQ my FET channel to sound like an FET amp (Cut lows, boost low mids) & TUBE (Boost lows & cut low mids)... that makes the 2 sound VERY different & then I EQ from there

The Streamliner is the one amp that sounds extremely different than any other amp. I think most FETs sound close, same with 1 tube amps... shuttle, MB tube... they are all close.

Well I would imagine if you set up two different EQ settings like that they would sound different-

But I don't mean they sound exactly the same-but I've set the EQ to my liking on the FET and matched I'd on the tube channel-I'll switch one to the other and nope-only a very slight difference.

[Tunaman]

Yeah, I hear you... I like flipping between the 2 using my feet on the fly when songs change quickly vs going to adjust all those knobs

I have an optimal FET eq & an optimal TUBE warmth eq... to change them back n forth is a bitch and impossible when flowing song to song during a gig, coverband or just with itunes on shuffle

That is a really big feature to me, huge

[Marley's Ghost]

I owned a LMII and Shuttle 6.0 at the same time, and did an informal AB. I found the LMII to be warmer, deeper, louder and more vintage. I have a friend who runs a 6.0 live and gets some great tone from it that I could not seem to coax. We use very different cabs and basses, so lots of variables.