Markbass Rig (should I replace with something else)

Arlekiin · #1 03-12-2011, 10:19 PM

Hello,

So I have:
LTD: Deluxe 4 string necthru e-bass (E-4-B)
Markbass 104HF (4x10) 8ohm (800W)
Markbass 151HR (1x15) 8om (400W) extension cab
Markbass Little Rocker 500 Head (500W@4ohm)

Looks like this:

Sound it produces:

Head: I can get heavy/growly enough sound but I have started to suspect that I am really missing that "tube-breakup" sound which you can only get when using all valve head right?
My Little rocker 500 has tube distortion mix but thats not the same as natural tube distortion.

Cabs: Sound articulate or growly or clean whatever I have thrown at them they have produced but I still have this disturbing worm in my head telling me that its near but not 100% what im looking for.

My questions:

I am interested in this mellow stoner which still has articulation.
Dead Meadow, Black Mountain, Clutch, Kyuss and Trouble etc.
There are other factors but

1) Is there a way to simulate "Tube" sound effectively and cheaper than buying full valve orange or aguilar head?

2) What do you think about markbass cabs for stoner/60's pshychedelic?

3) What do you think about Little rocker 500 in general?

4) Can anybody compare Markbass gear with Oranges or Ampeq's?

5) Maybe it would be simpler to play with strings?

Advice will be appreciated

Arlekiin · #2 03-12-2011, 10:24 PM

I suspect that the easiest and also one of the cheapest things to replace would be the head, relatively expensive but if I get the right thing in 1 go Id be set for few years.

The tricky thing is I'd like to get by cheap and I don't want to cough out 1500-2000 euros just like that especially since im saving towards Rick 4003. I like the idea of ampeq SVT 2 Pro though since its a 2 channel amp and would allow me to run a double stack one day.

Also been thinking about 6x12" cab's how do they compare to 10"s? I feel that 10"s are just a tad too bright or snappy but 15"s arent quite the right thing alone either so I was thinking maybe 1x18" + 1x18" + 4x12" (for spark).

Arlekiin · #3 03-12-2011, 10:26 PM

All in all I think Im probably whining too much it should "be" a killer rig just would like to get just a little bit of TUBE sweetness/gold shimmer however you want to call it into my sound...

**pacojas** · #4 03-12-2011, 10:28 PM

your rig is killer!
do you ever put the 15 on the bottom?
does it matter?

Arlekiin · #5 03-12-2011, 10:32 PM

Yes it makes a difference, if you put the 15" on top sound has more "growl" if you put it on the floor then ground eats some of the cranky bass and lets the 4x10 stay in the lead (slightly brighter with bellow deep backtone).

boogie8008 · #6 03-12-2011, 10:38 PM

the best simulated tube tone I have heard is from a Sans Amp RBI. One of those and a decent power amp could get you a nice tubey grit and would not cost that much. I would keep the cabs if I were you, they are very articulate and not that heavy for such a massive rig.

rodl2005 · #7 03-12-2011, 10:43 PM

U got a LITE WEIGHT amp & cabs. ALL are real good too. Tho I have played the 410 cab regularly & OWN a HR151, I've only played the li'l Rocker in store. But it sounded GREAT to me.
Really unless U R gonna look at a FULL TUBE amp & therefore 50+ lbs.

Other options maybe a Mesa Walkabout(most 'tubey' sounding hybrid amp I've EVER heard) or try the GB Streamliner- maybe....

If you LIKE the amp u got already- grab a Tech 21 VTBASS pedal & it'll get ya 90% of the way there.

Arlekiin · #8 03-12-2011, 10:46 PM

Hmm been actually thinking about trying out SANSAMP's the main reason being multiple possible sounds and 3-4 banks so I could switch easily and sansamp would come into my hands real cheap compared to full valve head.

Probably I could get the sansamp and keep the head for now if I use sansamp for tone and head for power (would turn it flat) since its a markbass and SS it is pretty neutral when tube-drive etc are off so that could work...?

And yes im definetly keeping the cabs for now they are too new and trying to figure out what else to get and then getting it would be a nightmare so unless I hear something that just kills my cabs in my eyes Ill keep em. Would like to try out one of those Aguilar 4x12"s though

SJan3 · #9 03-12-2011, 10:49 PM

Genz Benz Streamliner 900? Just tried a friend's new unit and it is VERY NICE and tubey?!
3 preamp tubes and a separate GAIN control to introduce the natural tube overdrive.
About the same size and weight as the Little Mark Rocker. Still, you may be a little hard on your rig. I'd image it would kick major BOOTY!

Arlekiin · #10 03-12-2011, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodl2005

U got a LITE WEIGHT amp & cabs. ALL are real good too. Tho I have played the 410 cab regularly & OWN a HR151, I've only played the li'l Rocker in store. But it sounded GREAT to me.
Really unless U R gonna look at a FULL TUBE amp & therefore 50+ lbs.

Other options maybe a Mesa Walkabout(most 'tubey' sounding hybrid amp I've EVER heard) or try the GB Streamliner- maybe....

If you LIKE the amp u got already- grab a Tech 21 VTBASS pedal & it'll get ya 90% of the way there.

Hmm Very interesting, what do you mean when you say "LITE WEIGHT" I know they are neo's and well the amp can fit into my pants but did you refer to the weight or did you imply that the "LITE WEIGHT" comes with a certain sound signature?

I'd probably prefer MESA just because i prefer the looks I dont think its easy to try either of them for me (considering what I can see in the stores).

Grabbing Tech 21 or RBI seems to be the most logical step that would give me the maximum gain with no considerable cashburn.

Arlekiin · #11 03-12-2011, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SJan3

Genz Benz Streamliner 900? Just tried a friend's new unit and it is VERY NICE and tubey?!
3 preamp tubes and a separate GAIN control to introduce the natural tube overdrive.
About the same size and weight as the Little Mark Rocker. Still, you may be a little hard on your rig. I'd image it would kick major BOOTY!

Oh it kicks, it can make your eyeballs pop and disintegrate your brain. The only thing im missing is the little bit of sweetness/randomness on the long notes...if it makes any sense.

Now here comes the hard part, I dont want to give up the articulation but I think I do like the nihilism some tube rigs have...If I could have this ultralow rig with tractor engine with lazy definiton and then with a flip of a button to turn it into lazer saw or heavy machinegun (smth like cliff burton maybe) and then get back into Sabbath like Butler sound...

rodl2005 · #12 03-12-2011, 11:00 PM

I meant light weight as in WEIGHT not tone- Hell I still use my Mark bass LMII(virtually same weight as yrs) & I love it. I also use an '91 SVTII...

& Tech 21 IS the company that MAKE SANSAMP pedals, VT Bass pedals & Sansamp RBI pre amps. ALL are great analog tube 'emulating' devices AFAIK.
I USE a Programmable Tech 21 SANSAMP Bass Driver DI, & a Tech 21 VT-Bass pedal - these both come in handy for getting some 'tube' grind or in the case of the 'VT bass' an AMPEG tube amp sound - whether it's a rendition of the ol' B-15 or SVT's.
I like yr rig!! IF you wanted- U can pick up a VTBASS pedal NEW for about $140- 2nd hand probly much less.....

Arlekiin · #13 03-12-2011, 11:39 PM

Damn its sunday and I cant go to the music store to pick one up right now

Hnz · #14 03-13-2011, 03:44 AM

Hi there,

I had almost exactly the same problem you have! Only my MB head was a LM2. And I used 12' cabs.

So I tried the LM tube, which did not make a significant difference to the LM2. imho.
Then I tried the LM rocker, which -as you stated- only gives you some tube overdrive.

Since I also missed a compressor and read good reviews about stuff made by "Art" in those days, I bought the Art Tubepac. A tube pre-amp/compressor.
And this did the job for me. It ads warmth to the overall OK Markbass sound. And with the +gain knob you can actualy dial in tube overdive. It goes form very subtle to a real massive growl.
The tubedriven comporessor is a bonus, if you dig that.

It's the cheapest solution to your question, I guess.

What put me off in the end was all these sound possibilities, all those knobs to turn and all the stuff and cables one has to take to a gig.

I went to Markbass for portability and sound. But missed that typical I-don't-know-what-it-is-but-it's-there-and-Ampeg-has-it in my sound.
THAT you cannot create with adding tubes to MB. I even miss it in my Walkabout. So I went back to Ampeg. The brand that gives me the right sound. No hustle, no stuff to take.

So to get back to your questions:

1) Is there a way to simulate "Tube" sound effectively and cheaper than buying full valve orange or aguilar head?
See above.

2) What do you think about markbass cabs for stoner/60's pshychedelic?
The ones you have should be fine.

3) What do you think about Little rocker 500 in general?
See above.

4) Can anybody compare Markbass gear with Oranges or Ampeq's?
Yes, I can - see above - and: Orange hybride and tube heads are very OK. But they don't have that what I mentioned above about Ampeg.
It is however a matter of preference and taste which of the two brands you go for. So test them.

5) Maybe it would be simpler to play with strings?
How do you play your bass now then?

Cheers!
Hans

Arlekiin · #15 03-13-2011, 03:52 AM

Thanks for the comprehensive review:

Quick solution: Im gonna get the VTBass pedal (to ease my pain)

Next target amp: MESA BOOGIE 400+ (will try Ampeq's, and oranges too though)

Cabs: Will try to hold on to these for awhile if I really cant escape it I might try out (boogies).

Strings: Till now I have played with my imaginary strings which exist on the 9th imaginary axis in the 11th dimension. Really (I play with Elixirs) at the moment.

Hnz · #16 03-13-2011, 04:16 AM

GOOD PLAN!

Allthough the Sansamp and VT pedal add so many tonal possibillities that it drove me nuts, as I was in search for just that one right sound.
But hey, if you like experimenting with sounds and stuff, they're great!

All three brands are great amps for what you dig, soundwise. So let your ears be the judge.

Ah, Elixirs! I don't like'm. They tend to be clean longer, that's right. I just don't like the kinda 'plastic' feel they have. And to me their sound is likewise - a bit artificial.
I prefer the d'Addario EXP strings when it comes down to longlife strings. I find them more warm and subtle sounding.

Tunaman · #17 03-13-2011, 05:43 AM

Jesus man don't sell that rig!
What the deuce?
Get the VT like the men say... you'd be INSANE

jasper383 · #18 03-13-2011, 06:31 AM

I can get a pretty good "tubey" sound from my LMII with the gain up higher than usual, and the VLE and VPF both set at about 10 o'clock.

Get a VT pedal if this has been tried and isn't tubey enough.

Maybe put flats on that bass to get even more "mellow" and "stoner"?

Arlekiin · #19 03-13-2011, 10:57 AM

Yes VT-pedal it is, tomorrow I will go to the music store and try out 3 of these pedals VTBass, RBI Bassdriver and VTBass Deluxe and see what suits me best.
I can probably take them home with me and test them out and then buy the one I dig.

Arlekiin · #20 03-15-2011, 05:45 AM

Ok went to the store and they did not have the VTBass or VTBass deluxe in at the moment they did have Sansamp Bassdriver deluxe which didnt work the way I wanted for me.

At this point I will still try to get hold of one to test it out but I am starting to think that maybe I should just go and get myself a mesa 400+ or some other high profile tube amp and it would save me few bucks in the end.

Still missing that swing in my notes...though slight reverb helps