Markbass treble issue

seungkoo · #1 11-15-2010, 07:21 PM

Ok I am not sure if it's an issue or not. I just bought a used Jeff Berlin combo amp this past weekend. I set my amp all flat but torY I just wanted to fool around and make sure everything is working fine on the amp since I have a 14 day return policy.

I messed around with all the eq knobs and noticed that when I turn the treble knob there's hardly Amy difference in change. The other 3 eq knobs you can tell a drastic change between 7 and 5 o clock.
I know the Berlin combo has no tweeter but is this normal. When I turn up the vfe? Not the vle and mess with thetreble I can hear a hiss with the treble all they wAy up but he actual tone there is hardly any dofference. Maybe it's he p bass with flats? I tried it with my streamer and still the same. No change.

My question. Is this an easy fix. Is it in my head or should there be a huge difference in sound when I turn the treble. When I had my markbass f1 I can tell the diferencE.
Think guitar center fix this problem for me? Will it cost me $$$ to repair it? Or just live with it? The tone is amazing with my eq set flat. I can always change the treble on my streamer but can't dial it in with my passive basses.

cybersnyder · #2 11-15-2010, 07:25 PM

I played one about a year ago and I remember the treble seemed to be missing compared to other amps.

seungkoo · #3 11-15-2010, 07:33 PM

Yea I'm not sure if it's tuned that way or my treble is gone. Guess tommorow I will try it at higher volumes during the daytime

JimmyM · #4 11-15-2010, 10:08 PM

it's kind of a dark sounding amp for sure. i'd say it's probably pretty normal for that amp.

Brado · #5 11-15-2010, 10:11 PM

Probably because the treble is voiced a bit higher, but there is no tweeter in that combo....at least I think there's not a tweeter. That would be my guess.

MIJ-VI · #6 11-15-2010, 10:39 PM

From the manual:

EQUALIZATION:
Low: 40 Hz
Mid-Low: 360 Hz
Mid-High: 800 Hz
High: 10 kHz <-- a 15" woofer is good to.., what? <5 kHz?
VLE: max cut range 250 Hz - 20 kHz
VPF: center freq. 380 Hz (cut)

IntrepidCellist · #7 11-15-2010, 10:41 PM

Wow, that high band is way above what I would find useful for pretty much any cab, tweeter or no!

dezspet · #8 11-15-2010, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MIJ-VI

High: 10 kHz <-- a 15" woofer is good to.., what? <5 kHz?
VLE: max cut range 250 Hz - 20 kHz
VPF: center freq. 380 Hz (cut)

As far as I know the center frequency of the high eq is 5 kHz and it's working from 2 kHz up to 30 kHz (Q range).
Anyway, the point is the same: this is an odd combination of a modern amp and an old school cabinet without tweeter and that is why you hear marginal difference in tone turning up the highs.
When you use it with new strings you should hear little bit more.

greenboy · #9 11-15-2010, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IntrepidCellist

Wow, that high band is way above what I would find useful for pretty much any cab, tweeter or no!

Might not hurt to read the descriptions of preamp numbers on Audere's website to get a better idea how useless a single number often is to describe a filter. This could be any Q (bandwidth/steepness, roughly), and we have no idea what the qualifications were for arriving at the number.

IntrepidCellist · #10 11-15-2010, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenboy

Might not hurt to read the descriptions of preamp numbers on Audere's website to get a better idea how useless a single number often is to describe a filter. This could be any Q (bandwidth/steepness, roughly), and we have no idea what the qualifications were for arriving at the number.

I suppose that's true. It just seems like an unusually high number given the application.

This is why I prefer at least a band or two of semi-parametric mids, if not the whole Eden WT-style EQ section... I can at least choose where I'm hitting the signal to fit the room.

greenboy · #11 11-15-2010, 11:44 PM

Yeah, I'm into DSP based EQ, so I hear ya. But even in analog, I've always gone for flexible EQ, so that I wouldn't have to worry so much about mix-n-match games.

electracoyote · #12 11-15-2010, 11:55 PM

I'm on my second Jeff Berlin (traded in the first for the v.2 with DI output volume control), I guess I never noticed any highs missing. I do play brighter basses with rounds, and I scoop the mids.

Peter Murray · #13 11-16-2010, 12:33 AM

Hi there,

To answer a few of these questions:
On the high EQ knob, 10kHz is described as a "center frequency"--it's sort of a spike in the EQ curve, and there are certainly frequencies above and below it that are affected.
If you download the Little Mark III manual you'll see a graph of this EQ control:
http://www.markbass.it/products.php?...&cat=1&vedi=99

So although this combo has a frequency response of up to 5 kHz and the center frequency of the treble knob is 10 kHz, the treble knob will affect frequencies that are heard from the combo.
But obviously the changes would be much more audible if there were a tweeter in the combo.

Now the other point to make is that your bass may not be putting out a lot of information in that frequency range. It can only reproduce what it's getting--and more modern, active instruments, especially with newer strings, do put out more highs.

Lastly, people who buy the Jeff Berlin combo don't WANT a tweeter. Jeff himself hates tweeters. That's part of his sound, it's how he hears things. And this combo has been really, really popular, so I guess a lot of people feel the same way.
Personally I like the sparkle that only a tweeter can provide. But that's me... and for that reason, this combo would not be my personal choice.

I don't think there's anything wrong with your combo, but I think that maybe if you're missing high end, you should consider switching to a combo with a tweeter (for example the Mini CMD 151P, which is pretty much a Jeff Berlin combo with a tweeter).

Hope that helps. If you have any other questions, please let me know.

Peter

Quote:

Originally Posted by seungkoo

Ok I am not sure if it's an issue or not. I just bought a used Jeff Berlin combo amp this past weekend. I set my amp all flat but torY I just wanted to fool around and make sure everything is working fine on the amp since I have a 14 day return policy.

I messed around with all the eq knobs and noticed that when I turn the treble knob there's hardly Amy difference in change. The other 3 eq knobs you can tell a drastic change between 7 and 5 o clock.
I know the Berlin combo has no tweeter but is this normal. When I turn up the vfe? Not the vle and mess with thetreble I can hear a hiss with the treble all they wAy up but he actual tone there is hardly any dofference. Maybe it's he p bass with flats? I tried it with my streamer and still the same. No change.

My question. Is this an easy fix. Is it in my head or should there be a huge difference in sound when I turn the treble. When I had my markbass f1 I can tell the diferencE.
Think guitar center fix this problem for me? Will it cost me $$$ to repair it? Or just live with it? The tone is amazing with my eq set flat. I can always change the treble on my streamer but can't dial it in with my passive basses.

seungkoo · #14 11-16-2010, 04:21 AM

Thanks everyone for he informative answer. I still love the sound of the combo just felt odd about the range of the treble knob

KJung · #15 11-16-2010, 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seungkoo

Thanks everyone for he informative answer. I still love the sound of the combo just felt odd about the range of the treble knob

If you are familiar with Jeff Berlin's tone, it makes sense that this particular 'signature combo' would have very little going on above 3K or so (i.e., the top of the driver). I agree though that modifying the center/shelving point of that treble control to allow adding some lower treble grind in that combo would have been cool, but probably not worth the trouble, since again it is a 'signature' combo designed to replicate a certain tone which has very little lower treble much less upper treble content.

seungkoo · #16 11-16-2010, 06:15 AM

It just felt odd since I thought it was basically a LMII head in the cab. Im not too familiar with all these frequency terms yet. I tend on spending my time looking through these amp forums

KJung · #17 11-16-2010, 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seungkoo

It just felt odd since I thought it was basically a LMII head in the cab. Im not too familiar with all these frequency terms yet. I tend on spending my time looking through these amp forums

It is the standard LMII (now LMIII) head. That head has beautiful, even extension all the way up to high treble, and even with my 'bright' tone goals, I've never had to boost top end with that head.

However, I don't play it through a one way 15 cab

For your tone goals, you most likely purchased the right head paired with the wrong cab.

seungkoo · #18 11-16-2010, 06:32 AM

Don't get me wrong, I love the tone from this combo. I just got frustrated that the treble knob didnt do anything after spending almost $700 on a used combo.
I had a F1 before this and just loved the little amp. This thing is great because it weighs almost nothing for a 15" combo!

KJung · #19 11-16-2010, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seungkoo

Don't get me wrong, I love the tone from this combo. I just got frustrated that the treble knob didnt do anything after spending almost $700 on a used combo.
I had a F1 before this and just loved the little amp. This thing is great because it weighs almost nothing for a 15" combo!

+1 Hopefully, now you understand why it 'doesn't do anything' with that particular cabinet/speaker.