Marshall 1935 4x12 bass cab questions

[ryco]

I bought this cab a couple of years ago for $100. Was using it with a Peavey Mark III and it sounded pretty good. Also used it in a bi-amp situation with a Sunn Concert Slave + Peavey and it sounded really good running the high end only! But I wanted to use it with a tube Sunn 200s head and it's not cutting it.

This cab says "Type: Bass" on the label, but I'm not so sure. Is this really a bass cab?

It's a sealed cab with 4 Rola Celestion G12M 25w 16Ω 75hz. It sounds good with SS heads; GK1001, Sunn Concert, but craps out pretty quickly (around 4) with the Sunn 200s, a 60w amp.

The cab label says it's rated at 100w and impedance is "15-8Ω per pair", 2x8Ω/pr = 4Ω. The Sunn 200s has two speaker impedance option = 4Ω or 8Ω - I've been using the 4Ω, 2x8Ω/pr = 4Ω. Right/wrong?

Went to the Marshall forum and a guy was asking about this cab, but the answer wasn't very satisfactory. A Senior Member was talking about T1551 speakers here. Are these the same thing? Are they "greenbacks"?

My questions:
• Is this really a bass cab?
• Are these bass speakers?
• What imp speaker out should I use with the Sunn 200s (may be why it's crapping out).
• Is this wired in series or parallel? Is this the proper factory wiring? pic included
•• Bonus question: serial # A01534. Can anyone date this? For amp heads an "A" means '69/'70. Same for cabs?

any info you can give me would be greatly appreciated. Opinions would be interesting as well. Thanx

[dhsierra1]

I'd say it's definitely not a bass driver.

Celestion | Guitar Loudspeakers

[dhsierra1]

you'll have to do a little digging on the Marshall forums to see what you've got. Found a few refs that there was indeed a bass 1935 cab for bass applications so it seems a bit confusing. But if you look at the Celestion website those drivers are classified as used for guitar

[mazdah]

My friend had one, used it with a 200W all tube amp in stoner/drone/doom band. Very loud in C tunning. Of the speakers are original, this cab should do the job.

[will33]

Yes, they're guitar speakers. They are a type of greenback. There are also pre-rola greenbacks (originals) and later reissues.

Found some forum with serial number/date codes, etc.

Not a bass cab but probably worth a good bit more than you paid for it to a guitar player. 25w, 16ohms and 75hz does not a bass speaker make, no matter the label.

Celestion "Greenback" ID thread, pics, descriptions, etc. [Archive] - The Gear Page

[chadds]

If it's late '60s cab the 1935s were bass cabs. They had Celestions or Goodmans. The A was slant front the B, straight front. Whether you like how they sound is subjective. A lot of folks used them.
If it's a newer cab with newer speakers it's for guitar for sure.
Now that I think about it I owned and tried a Sunn 2000s into these cabs for months and the results were not great. A Marshall head sounds much better into that cab. A Sunn can sound much better into a 2x15 Sunn. Just better matches.

[anderbass]

Originally Posted by ryco

I wanted to use it with a tube Sunn 200s head and it's not cutting it.

Depending on how loud your band plays, your Sunn 200s may never be loud enough to 'cut it' no mater what cabs you use. I own one of these amps, I think it sounds freakin awesome with lower volume bands but I came to realise It'll never be very loud on its own with any cabs.

You should take your 200s to a music store and use it to audition some 8x10, 2x15 or a pair of 4x10 bass cabs so you'll better understand your amps limitations.

[ryco]

Thanx anderbass! I usually run the 200s thru an old Plush 2x15 cab with old Altecs or a Sunn Coliseum 8028 loaded with an EV 12+18. Had the Sunn 2x15 with Cerwin Vegas back in the mid '70s but sold it. Weighed a ton and I thought the Plush threw better, sounded better and was half the weight. Wish I still had it now to keep as a matched pair.

I don't really play in loud loud bands anymore. On the occasion I need to be LOUD I throw a GK1001/210 combo on top of the Sunn 8028. I'm playing an outside wedding reception/pig roast (seriously!! I'm a hick now!!) and was hoping to use the 200s/Marshall for that. I have other options tho.

I just copied this post over in the Marshall Forums (minus the Marshall forum comment ), so I'll see what they say - hopefully can get an accurate date anyway. But I'm inclined to agree with will33 about the speaker size - seems pretty wimpy for bass drivers.

[bertbass666]

Back in the day, Marshall used the same speakers in both lead and bass cabinets. Infact they were the same cabinets but the lead cabs were rated at 100w and the bass at 75w.

[bertbass666]

Just remembered, Marshall did make a 120w lead cab loaded with 4 celestion g12h speakers. These speakers were rated at 30w each.

[chadds]

Originally Posted by bertbass666

Just remembered, Marshall did make a 120w lead cab loaded with 4 celestion g12h speakers. These speakers were rated at 30w each.

There were three distinct cabs in the late '60s early '70s. 1960 a or b guitar cab. 1935 a or b bass cab. 1982 a or b 100 watt cab. Says 100 in corner. All 4x12 cabs.

[ryco]

Originally Posted by Ayrton

That appears to be a mid '70's Marshall 1935/1960 cab. The "bass" cabs were the same as the "lead" (1960) cabs, but traditionally came with the 55hz speaker cones (usually G12H30s).

Someone could have swapped the speakers.

What are the date codes on the speaker frames? The speaker model number is T1221, and the date code is just under that.

Originally Posted by george76

no no no! the 1935 bass cabs all came with T1511 (G12M) speakers in the early days. those are 55Hz speakers but often came mis-labeled with 75Hz labels like these. it is a bit unusual on rola labels though.

those speakers appear to be circa mid 72 - 73 (you can tell by the rola label, grey tabs and green covers) which is in keeping with the construction of the cab, so they are probably original. the cab is an early checkerboard and someone has painted the grill cloth black.

I cant quite make the date codes out from the pic but they look like GE or CE. which would be 1972.

the speakers should have pulsonic cones if original. look for a white '102/14' stamp, or possibly just a '4' on its own.

someone has been messing with the wiring for some reason so watch out for recones.

so I sez: "Thanx for the good info, George!
Here's a closer shot of the wiring and the number on one frame, which indeed read "GE T1511".



My concern isn't if something has been re-coned, as long as it's working proper - which everything seems to be. I'm not hearing any distortion or crapping out with Solid State heads = Sunn Concert Bass @ 200watts, GK1001 @ 570watts ext out, or a Peavey Mark III @ 300watts; even though this cab is rated at 100 watts.
But my little Sunn 200s @ 60 watts will really push this cab, evn with the dial at low volumes - 4 is pushing it. It's not the 200s because I've just had it reconditioned and it's playing well through my other bass cabs.

I also hooked up an old Marshall copy lead head, a mid 70's Yorkville Traynor TS-200 @ 200w (!!!) , and this just cab screams.

So back to my original question, in your opinion, is this really a bass cab and what would be the proper ohms out from a head - 4Ω or 8Ω?"

So this is where things stand.

[dhsierra1]

probably should at least line the inside walls to kill the standing waves. SOP on closed as well as ported cabs.

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by bertbass666

Back in the day, Marshall used the same speakers in both lead and bass cabinets.

Everyone did, but Marshall and Fender were the worst in that respect. That's why their bass cabs of the '60s and '70s were horrid by today's standards. I'd sell that cab in a heartbeat to a guitar player, and get a pair of modern 2x10s that will bitch-slap that Marshall with extreme prejudice.

[ryco]

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

Everyone did, but Marshall and Fender were the worst in that respect. That's why their bass cabs of the '60s and '70s were horrid by today's standards. I'd sell that cab in a heartbeat to a guitar player, and get a pair of modern 2x10s that will bitch-slap that Marshall with extreme prejudice.

For $100 I may keep it around - unless there was a geetar guy that wanted to trade me for a GK neo 212.

Hell Bill, you know it's against bass player rules to ever get rid of any piece gear!

[EDIT] ps Bill - does this cab use a 4Ω or an 8Ω speaker out of a [tube] head?

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by ryco

[EDIT] ps Bill - does this cab use a 4Ω or an 8Ω speaker out of a [tube] head?

With four 16 ohm drivers the wiring options are 4, 16 and 64 ohms. Which to use depends on the amp.

[ryco]

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

With four 16 ohm drivers the wiring options are 4, 16 and 64 ohms. Which to use depends on the amp.

A '70 Sunn 200s. Only has a 4Ω or 8Ω out option, so 4Ω it is. AN ANSWER!! YES!! THANK YOU, BILL!

and this from The Marshall Forum:

Originally Posted by george76

yes its a bass cab. you can double check by looking in the top left corner of the cab (from the front) and you should see three holes all in a horizontal line. those are the mounting holes for the 'bass' logo that would have been there.

however these were made in 1972 not 2002! and were designed for use with marshall 50 watt heads or 100 watt heads. not modern mega watt bass amps.

unless you want to really damage the speakers i would stick to using a 50 watt valve head with that cab. if the cones are original and in good working order the speakers are worth about £125 GBP each. but if you blow them all they are worthless.

use your higher wattage heads with your other cabs that can handle them better.

Thanx very much all! -Ryco