Maybe they're not so bad. (B word)

Dustin Teel · #1 11-01-2011, 10:10 PM

Yep. Behringer.

Tonight, a friend of mine invited me to come to his band's practice space to jam on some light alternative/folk songs he had written. I agreed, grabbed my passive Schecter Raiden 4, and headed that way.

When I got there, I immediately looked at the bass rig, and got a sick feeling in my stomach. It was an older 300 watt Behringer head atop two Acoustic 410 cabs (8x10). After inspecting the cabs, I determined that they were two B410s (Acoustic's budget 410).

I thought, great... I get to sound like crap for the next three hours.

So, I plugged in my bass, set the EQ on the head completely flat, flipped on the switch, and started plucking.

And was shocked at how great the setup sounded.

The tone was smooth, with a bit of growl, and (a much expected) presence in the low-mids. The tone reminded me of a Foo Fighterish modern, alternative rock sound. I thought, okay... there's no way this crappy $150 German ripoff of an Ashdown Mag (or whatever) could even compare to some of my personal $600 bass heads.

I started walking around the room, assuming it was an audio-illusion. But no, the tone was consistently good wherever I stood. I was still kind of shocked when we started jamming. It sat in the mix great. He was using some kind of Les Paul with a Mesa/Boogie 2x12 tube combo. We rocked for about an hour and took a short break. He started talking about the bass rig and said "Yeah, usually every bassist that comes over here brings their own rig. That thing never really gets used. I don't know why, it sounds awesome. I noticed on the last two songs how great your bass sounded." And I couldn't help but agree.

So, I know this is Talkbass blasphemy, but I really don't see why Behringer gets such a bad rap. Is it just because they rip off other companies and use cheaper parts? Was there a specific line of amps or cabs they had at one time that sucked really bad and made everyone hate them? I usually read at least one post every two or three days where someone here bashes them or advises to steer clear of their products.

Now, am I going to go out and buy a Behringer head? Well, of course not. But I must admit, I was pleasantly surprised. Next time I go to jam with said friend, will I use that rig? You betcha.

Interested to hear some of your thoughts on this.

jordak · #2 11-01-2011, 10:14 PM

I use some Behringer stompboxes. paid $70 for the 3 of them new

I have yet to be told after a gig "you sounded good but something sounded cheap about that overdrive".

skychief · #3 11-01-2011, 10:21 PM

blasphemy, indeed.

Dustin Teel · #4 11-01-2011, 10:36 PM

HereIGoAgain · #5 11-01-2011, 10:41 PM

Behringer is an example of the budget triangle:
Pick any TWO:
Great sound, gig reliability, budget/value price

Examples:
The Crate Palomino guitar tube amps had fantastic sound and were affordable to the average person, but if you bought one, you needed to buy a second as backup.

The Crate Flexwave 5 guitar amp series are also affordable, and you can't bust 'em if you chucked 'em out a window, but they sound bad.

Behringer is along the same lines. The Behringer pedals are all Boss clones, so the sound is there, but they are all plastic, and the tuner pedal which I have will not turn bass.

Some Behringer stuff should be avoided, but some is actually decent. Speaker cabs for PAs, lighting controllers, and microphones are good for the money.

Most gear-oriented forum will have some degree of "Gear snobbery," but let's face it, in today's economy, "budget/value" priced gear does indeed have its place, and not all live in a used gear-rich area.

seamonkey · #6 11-01-2011, 10:52 PM

I only read about cheap parts in Behringer gear. I don't see a lot of inside shots posted, but if you look at:

http://www.eurotec.cn/links/EUROTEC%20Fact%20Sheet.pdf

On page 2 are 4 images, the one on the top right is some kind of Behringer mixer.
Look at the pots and components, They are not cheapening out.

bluemountainfog · #7 11-01-2011, 10:54 PM

Maybe the cabinets affected the tone enough to hide the behringer effect. I can't imagine a behringer head and cab mix sounding decent. But then again I only had a 180 Watt 15 inch combo, so who knows -- maybe their amp heads are alright - definitely a good option for backline considering the price.

rodl2005 · #8 11-01-2011, 10:56 PM

I'll just repeat what I always say in regards:- a hire co. in my town has the same Behr. 300w or 450w (can't remember) gold front amp & the paper cone 410 cab & it's been used & abused for over 6 yrs. As only hire gear can.
I personally know their tech, & apart from a service every so often, the Behr. rig just keeps on!
It sounds ok to.
I've had to use it on a few occasions, when we were told there'd be Svt-Cl etc backline only to get there & find this......
Afaik, these 300 & the latter-450w Behr. amps seem to be pretty good.
Not saying there ain't failures out there, Or that I'd want one(the 410 cab weighs a ton!- MDF!) but...... 6 yrs of reg use & abuse & it's still going. Even their tech is impressed.

Marty Forrer · #9 11-01-2011, 10:59 PM

I dunno, I down-scaled from a USA Eden head to a Behringer 300 because it sounded nearly as good for bass guitar, and a lot better for double bass. That was about 7 years ago. That head has done a LOT of gigs and has never had a problem. I initially tried it on the recommendation of my brother, a full-time bass player for 40 years. He has had his for about 12 years I think and has toured and done a bazillion gigs.
Are we just lucky? I dunno, but I dont have any bad words for them.

Tim1 · #10 11-01-2011, 11:15 PM

I have had no problems whatsoever using a Behringer EP2500 head for many years in our PA or a Behringer rack feedback destroyer.
I must confess (and am ashamed to admit) that sheer gear snobbery based on what I have read and heard would prevent me from using Behringer in my bass rig. That said, the EP2500 sounds quite nice as a bass power amp but I would always look for better speakers.

Alex1984 · #11 11-02-2011, 02:20 AM

I think Behringers are OK for budget gear. They'll get you sounding decent for cheap. My main beef with them was reliability, I've owned a couple of Behringer gear that quit on me when I needed them. If you try to take it to a tech for repairs, most techs would just tell you to buy a new one.

Jim Carr · #12 11-02-2011, 04:43 AM

Pots with plastic shafts that snapped off, pointless features galore, hard to EQ, MDF cabinets which dissolved in beer and rain, an awkward one handle package weighing in at over 50 lbs—what is there to like about the (supposed) 120 watt Berhinger Ultrabass 1200x 112 combo I was forced to use at least once a week for nearly 3 years? It is discontinued! That is now its best feature. I hated it, can you tell? I had never heard of Talkbass when I started using it.

4-string · #13 11-02-2011, 04:58 AM

The Behringer bashing is way out of proportion IMO, and just proves that we all listen with more than our ears.

Build quality, reliability, business practices I can agree with, but lots of Behringer products sound good IME/IMO.

That said, we will of course see more of the "I plugged into this Behringer, and it was the worst sounding XXXX I ever heard. LOL!" kind of statements around here.

azzyrazzy · #14 11-02-2011, 05:06 AM

Behringer, "sounds good when it works"

IngerAlb · #15 11-02-2011, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azzyrazzy

Behringer, "sounds good when it works"

That pretty much sums it up

Bad rep aside, their products are not nearly as bad as some folks say, but they're still not reliable enough. I've seen some of their stuff working flawlessly for years, and others that kept breaking very often. Thing is most guys buyig B products are on a tight budget and they can't afford paying for repairs - it's a gamble that might prove too expensive - especially for someone that can't afford gambling in the first place.

IMO some of their bass amps sound fairly good, while most of their cabs suck. I'm also tempted to get a Bugera 5500 BVP head, but I'm still to afraid to do it because of all the negative reviews telling it's a very hit or miss unit.

Jim Carr · #16 11-02-2011, 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4-string

The Behringer bashing is way out of proportion IMO, and just proves that we all listen with more than our ears...

No, actually, the sound of the amp I used was pretty much irrelevant because I ran in at an extremely low volume—pretty much ANY amp could have done as well or as poorly on that account.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4-string

Build quality, reliability, business practices I can agree with, but lots of Behringer products sound good IME/IMO.

Breaking pots shafts and disintegration due to moisture were pretty much a regular occurrence with those amps at the broadcast organization I worked for. We went though four or five of them in 4 years. They were used once or twice a week for 3 hours each time. The head engineer had some kind of endorsement deal with them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4-string

That said, we will of course see more of the "I plugged into this Behringer, and it was the worst sounding XXXX I ever heard. LOL!" kind of statements around here...

Maybe, but my experience was that the quality of the parts, components and design were very low. If you have a Behringer and it serves you well, then that is good.

DRafalske · #17 11-02-2011, 05:54 AM

I don't get all the Behringer bashing either. It is budget equipment and that's fine. I don't use their amps because I've never played one I liked the sound of.
Guitarists don't seem to think much of their guitar amps either.

On the other hand I've used and played through TONS of their live sound stuff (mixers, poweramps, etc) and it's all sounded fine and never let me down.

D

Warrior_Bass · #18 11-02-2011, 05:57 AM

I had to borrow an Ultrabass head when my GK2001RB crapped out on a gig. It was considerably less powerful, but I still heard myself fine and it sounded decent.

DBCrocky · #19 11-02-2011, 06:01 AM

I've had a couple of bad Behringer experiences, a feedback suppress with a lot of hiss comes to mind. My rule has been: No Behringer products that have an audio out. Their MIDI foot controllers and light controllers are OK.

Russell L · #20 11-02-2011, 06:18 AM

I've played a friend's 410 450w combo on a gig in a large venue and it did ok. Big sound, but not the best tone, IMO. It also weighs 160 lbs. The pots feel too loose, but they work. Same guy had a PA head die at the gig, twice. But, I used that same head for my bass through my Markbass cab when I forgot my head one night, and it performed fine, and sounded good, too. Like said above, it's hit or miss.

I'm not really bashing them, and I don't think all the negative comments are snobbery, but just stating the facts. Budget gear, failures, cheaper components, and sometimes lesser performance all go together---not necessarily, but usually. Considering the price, logic points to a greater chance of failure and less performance. Not just Behringer, though, but any other make that is of the same construction and price. Then again, some of the products are better than others, it seems, and do fine for quite some time.

But no one is necessarily a snob just because they'd rather pay more for something that makes them feel safer, and that they think sounds better.