MB & SCHRO Pleasantly Surprised

loopee · #1 08-29-2010, 02:25 AM

Well I've been using a Marbass CMD121P for club and bar gigs and been very happy with it. Today, we played our first "Outdoor" Festival gig. I've played in friends' backyards but never a regular outdoor gig. I figured from everything I've been reading that an 8ohm 112 cab (in my combo) would not be enough. Since I also have a LMII head I'd been looking into getting either 2 LDS 112's or maybe even 2 Mojo Sonic Mini 10's....but since I already have a Schroeder Mini12+L 4 ohm cab, I figured I'd give that a try and hope I'd be able to hear myself on stage and if it didn't work then I'd get 2 8ohm cabs later this week......WELL.....my bandmates and myself were all very happy that we could hear my bass really well on the stage, even with my volume only at 11o'clock on my LMII.....now I do have to say I was using my custom Fish Bass with active preamp plugged into my DHA EQ pedal into my LMII.....That DHA pedal's volume was only at noon and I was more than loud enough and the drummer hits pretty hard......the stage was one of those mobile stages but big enough that I was at least 20-30 feet from my guitard and I also appreciated the PA soundguy using my DHA DI instead of my amp's since now I had my own sound coming out of the PA and rig....nice.....SO.....Do I really need new cabs? Probably not unless I start playing arenas (NOT) so maybe I'll get one cab to add to my combo just in case the next Festival gig is in a bigger park or there is no PA but I don't think I really need them....I'll just say I'm GASING

::::BASSIST:::: · #2 08-29-2010, 02:33 AM

Hey Louise, glad it worked out with the schroe.

As long as you can hear yourself onstage, thats what counts. Let the PA do the rest. Since your band is a three piece its alot easier to hear yourself than if you were in a 6 piece or something. In my mind, its the PAs job to get the bass into the audience and your cab pretty much just becomes a monitor to hear yourself on stage. Again, glad it all worked out.

loopee · #3 08-29-2010, 03:17 AM

So am I.....wondering if I should bother swapping the driver though if I could use the Schro as an extension cab for the combo that might work better in situations where there is no PA (though I haven't had that problem yet).......

Still trying to see why 2 8ohm cabs are better than 1 4ohm other than maybe more airflow? Does having more air to move make it louder? I've never had the chance to hear the difference in an A/B test.....

::::BASSIST:::: · #4 08-29-2010, 04:22 AM

The answer is "it depends". If you have two VERY deeply voiced 8 ohm 112 cabs they will not likely be perceived to be as loud as one mid-rangey schroeder 112.

But in general two average 112s will be louder because there is more speaker surface area which results in more "airflow". And more notably they will sound better. Thats the million dollar question. Are you happy with the tone of the schroe mini 12? Is it loud enough for your situtation? If the answer to those two questions is "yes", just keep what you have and be happy. If the tone isn't what you want two 112s will sound better (fuller, warmer, deeper etc).

Gintaras · #5 08-29-2010, 04:51 AM

I have had the Schroeder 12 and still own a mini10 and a 15L. I sold the 12 because the 15L (4ohm) was louder and personally I liked the sound better. All of 30 lbs.

http://www.schroedercabinets.com/15+.htm

loopee · #6 08-29-2010, 11:18 PM

Well, it was loud enough but I truly would prefer the tone deeper and warmer though the Schro came through the mix very well and I could hear myself......mind you I was using my active swamp ash body with ebony board and pressurewound strings and it does have a trebly sound.....so hopefully I'll have a chance to try it outdoors with my Landing and my Fast Bass which have flats....especially the Fast Bass as it has a mahogany/myrtle body with rosewood/wenge neck and it's a warmer bass

Are your new LDS 12's deep and warm?

By the way, have you had a chance to check out that new Ibanez Promethean P500 head? Apparently it's warmer than the LMII and the price is pretty good and it's red and I really like red (which has nothing to do with sound but anyway.....lol)

loopee · #7 08-29-2010, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gintaras

I have had the Schroeder 12 and still own a mini10 and a 15L. I sold the 12 because the 15L (4ohm) was louder and personally I liked the sound better. All of 30 lbs.

http://www.schroedercabinets.com/15+.htm

Was your 12 a 4 or 8 ohm cab?

KJung · #8 08-30-2010, 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loopee

So am I.....wondering if I should bother swapping the driver though if I could use the Schro as an extension cab for the combo that might work better in situations where there is no PA (though I haven't had that problem yet).......

Still trying to see why 2 8ohm cabs are better than 1 4ohm other than maybe more airflow? Does having more air to move make it louder? I've never had the chance to hear the difference in an A/B test.....

Going to a 4ohm impedance with a small 112 cab won't get you much, since the LMII can drive most 112 cabs to full performance at 8ohms.

What you experienced was a VERY midrange voiced, high SPL cab versus the deeper voicing of the 12 in your combo. SPL (how loud a cab will get per watt) is highly correlated with the amount of low end extension (the lower the tuning, the more power it takes), and the level of midrange response (the more a cab is goosed in the low mids, the higher the perceived volume).

When using a single cab, a nominal impedance of 4ohms can make a HUGE difference IF the cab is large enough (410, 212, etc.) to make use of the additional power (you will get a higher absolute volume level, more open low end, less compression). With a smaller cab, like a 112, much better to go with two of them at 8ohms with your head.

loopee · #9 08-30-2010, 03:12 AM

Darn, I was hoping I wouldn't have to do that because that means I have to buy 2 112 cabs, sell my Schro and I might as well sell my combo too so I can afford the new cabs.
Now I need to decide whether they will be 2 LDS 112 cabs (no Tweet=less weight) or 2 Mojo Sonic Mini 10 cabs (one with Tweet - one without).....will the 10's give me good enough lows? I play blues and rock and I like a warm and deep tone......
or.....get a new Schro 112 8ohm and swap the 4 ohm driver in my other Schro for an 8 ohm?

KJung · #10 08-30-2010, 03:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loopee

Darn, I was hoping I wouldn't have to do that because that means I have to buy 2 112 cabs, sell my Schro and I might as well sell my combo too so I can afford the new cabs.
Now I need to decide whether they will be 2 LDS 112 cabs (no Tweet=less weight) or 2 Mojo Sonic Mini 10 cabs (one with Tweet - one without).....will the 10's give me good enough lows? I play blues and rock and I like a warm and deep tone......
or.....get a new Schro 112 8ohm and swap the 4 ohm driver in my other Schro for an 8 ohm?

I'm not necessarily recommending that. If you dug the Schroe, and it was loud enough, you are good to go. The LM's VPF filter is beautifully voiced to widen and fatten the Schroeder tone (at reasonably low settings). If you dig the Schroe in general, the Schroeder 115L+ is really cool... still small and light, but it hammers with the LMII, and can take a bit of low end boosting that fattens it up.

To your 110 question, I would definitely NOT do that. Those very small 110 cabs (regardless of brand) are just too compressed sounding in general, and have low max SPL. Even two of them won't give you much more than a good 112 cab. Two small 110 cabs rarely match the low end output of a good 210 cab.

I would consider just getting the extension 112 cab for your MB combo, assuming you like the tone but just need more db's. You would have a nice, small, lightweight modular rig with two 12's at 4ohms, without spending a tone of cash.

Gintaras · #11 08-30-2010, 04:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loopee

Was your 12 a 4 or 8 ohm cab?

The 12 was an 8 ohm and the 15 was a 4 ohm. I was planning to convert the 12 to a 4 so that I could use them together with my Neopak but it seemed that the 15 did everything I needed and I did like the tone better than the 12.

loopee · #12 08-30-2010, 11:51 PM

Well, that's the problem though.....I don't really like the Schro's tone....what I like was that I could hear myself with it at an outdoor gig......I did put a bit more VPF and VLE on the amp to fatten it up, I will also try what Stevemoodie wrote about a while back (10:30 10:30 9:00 9:00) and see if that helps fatten up the Schro otherwise I will sell it and get something else.

So I see there are 2 camps regarding being able to do outdoor gigs with one 12' cab, on side says "yes" and the other side says it can't be done.... so I found out that the Schro can do it but I'm not crazy for the tone but then if we're playing through the PA then no one but the band can hear the cab and the crowd hears what the soundman wants anyway.....

loopee · #13 08-30-2010, 11:58 PM

Thanks for telling me about the 10's....I figured so much....
As for an extension...do you mean just getting another MB cab? Or would 2 LDS cabs be better? I presume I shouldn't mix MB cab with LDS cabs.....? So if I sold the Schro and the combo I could get 2 LDS's, of course I'm losing $$ cause the combo wasn't cheap

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJung

I'm not necessarily recommending that. If you dug the Schroe, and it was loud enough, you are good to go. The LM's VPF filter is beautifully voiced to widen and fatten the Schroeder tone (at reasonably low settings). If you dig the Schroe in general, the Schroeder 115L+ is really cool... still small and light, but it hammers with the LMII, and can take a bit of low end boosting that fattens it up.

To your 110 question, I would definitely NOT do that. Those very small 110 cabs (regardless of brand) are just too compressed sounding in general, and have low max SPL. Even two of them won't give you much more than a good 112 cab. Two small 110 cabs rarely match the low end output of a good 210 cab.

I would consider just getting the extension 112 cab for your MB combo, assuming you like the tone but just need more db's. You would have a nice, small, lightweight modular rig with two 12's at 4ohms, without spending a tone of cash.

KJung · #14 08-31-2010, 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loopee

Thanks for telling me about the 10's....I figured so much....
As for an extension...do you mean just getting another MB cab? Or would 2 LDS cabs be better? I presume I shouldn't mix MB cab with LDS cabs.....? So if I sold the Schro and the combo I could get 2 LDS's, of course I'm losing $$ cause the combo wasn't cheap

Yes, another MB cab. If you like the way your combo sounds, adding a second identical speaker will make it louder and deeper... the sound you like already, but louder and with more bass. That would be kind of a no brainer to me, since you posted that you dig the tone of the combo.

::::BASSIST:::: · #15 08-31-2010, 11:51 AM

I have not yet gigged my LDS 112s enough to give an accurate assessment of their tone, but so far they sound pretty good.

I agree 100% with Ken. Getting a second MB cab is definitely the best option. This one matches the combo perfectly.

http://www.markbass.it/products.php?...&cat=2&vedi=97

Another option is to use the combo with a UL112 which I found to be a fairly good match.

One thing I would not do is buy another Schroe mini since you dont care for the tone. If you got two of those it will likely sound the same except louder. It might be a touch more bassy but likely not enough, and definitely not as much as the mb combo + extension.