mesa 400+ vs peavy vb2 vs vb3

tfernandez · #1 09-19-2010, 12:23 PM

I have searched the forums for comparisons, but didn't really find anything that satisfied my inquiries. Would anyone who has/had a combination of the amps listed like to share their experiences and give a comparison of them?

I'd like to know how the vb2 and vb3 differ from each other, other then in volume and extra gadgets built in.

I picked these 3 amps specifically because (to my understanding) they get more of a hifi sound. how does each compare in regards to this sound.
and what cabs would you suggest for these heads? (looking for 212 or 410)

EDIT: also wanna add the SUNN 300T into the mix

tfernandez · #2 09-19-2010, 11:00 PM

bump for edit

ledyard · #3 09-19-2010, 11:25 PM

If you have all these amps listed why would you leave out Ampeg? tried and dont like?

tfernandez · #4 09-20-2010, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ledyard

If you have all these amps listed why would you leave out Ampeg? tried and dont like?

tried and couldn't get the sound I wanted out of it.

gastric · #5 09-20-2010, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tfernandez

...I picked these 3 amps specifically because (to my understanding) they get more of a hifi sound...

I wouldn't be picking TUBE amps for a "hi fi" sound. Instead you should theoretically be getting a warm, saturated, and often gritty TUBE sound. Which is the exact opposite of "hi fi".

If you want pure, clean hi fi you should look at solid state or some of the 1-tube hybrids like Genz Benz.

BbbyBld · #6 09-20-2010, 02:05 PM

Gadgets aside:

The VB-2 has less extreme low end than the VB-3. This was to get the most headroom possible out of the VB-2's 225 watts. An extra 75 watts doesn't seem like it would make that much of a difference, but the switching supply in the VB-3 also gives it a lot of dynamic power so you can get speaker-slamming power if you crank the lows up. A VB-3 can easily blow a regular 410 if you turn up the lows and volume knob.

The VB-3 can be more hi-fi than the VB-2. What I mean by that is while they are both meant to be versatile, the VB-3 is more of a clean slate with lots more EQ options while the VB-2 has a little more coloration to compensate for the 3-band EQ. Both amps were meant to be unusually hi-fi for tube amps depending on the settings.

The output transformer in the VB-3 is much higher quality (and about twice the size) as the one in the VB-2. Actually, it's the heaviest part of the VB-3. This has an effect on the low end, perceived volume, and hi-fi-e-ness of the VB-3.

Eight_Stringer · #7 09-20-2010, 04:19 PM

Very useful to get the inside information and all important design goals for these Peavey amplifiers. Found BbbyBld posting of great use in trying to decide the differences between the VB-2 and VB-3, thank you and Regards.

RickenBoogie · #8 09-20-2010, 04:57 PM

The Mesa 400+ can be very hi-fi sounding. In fact, of all the current tube bass amps, it sits at the top of the pure clean toned hi-fi type list. It's not at all true that tube amps cannot do hi-fi- it's urban legend, or old wives tales. The Mesa Buster is another good example of an all tube amp that does the super clean, quick, "solid state" sounding hi fi thing.

tfernandez · #9 09-20-2010, 10:16 PM

I've been listening to recordings by artists who use the 400+ and sunn 300t. I know there is a lot more that goes into the final sound the just the amp, but I think I'm leaning more toward the sunn. I know i've been looking at this for more of the hifi sound (as it will be the main sound i use with my band), but versatility wise, how to these two compare?

Krügmeister · #10 09-20-2010, 10:31 PM

I have both and IMHO they aren't really the same.
The VB-2 really isn't Hi-Fi as much as a gut check at mid volumes.. it sounds AMAZING to me.
My 400+ sounds great when the tubes are being squished a tad so I use a single 15 to get the tubes be pushed a bit and it gets super wolly to me.

I honestly don't think you can go wrong with either 3 of them to tell you the truth, i have 0% experience with the VB-3.. but most reveiws have it at VB-2 standards and higher... and if that it true the VB-3 must be OUTSTANDING

ledyard · #11 09-22-2010, 05:45 PM

To assist you a bit further, what bass(basses) would you be using? how many strings? what type of music? in a band or just hobby/studio? or both?

You can certainly get hi-fi out of some tube amps but if thats all your after then I would steer away from tube amps myself.

seventhsunbass · #12 09-22-2010, 06:42 PM

I find that my 400+ combined with a Mesa 1516BE can have Hi-Fi or warm and thick depending on the settings and which bass I use. I have an '80 G&L L1K that is like creamy butter and an L-1505 whose snap and sheen can go toe to toe with the Genz-Benz type clean.

edbass · #13 09-23-2010, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickenBoogie

The Mesa 400+ can be very hi-fi sounding. In fact, of all the current tube bass amps, it sits at the top of the pure clean toned hi-fi type list.

Well, maybe on your personal list.

The big Mesa is a nice amp, it does what it does well and has a lot of fans (myself included), but clean Hi-Fi isn't something it does any where near as well as a Hiwatt, Reeves, Sadowsky, and a handful of other current production and out of production amps. I've not been able to find the VB2 or VB3 in inventory at any of the Peavey dealers that I've looked in, so I don't have personal knowledge of their characteristics, and as such won't volunteer an opinion on them.
In my experience the 400+ is more Hi-Fi than an Orange AD200, also IMO based on playing the two I think the 400+ is about as Hi-Fi as the SVT, but it has more of a distinctive "Boogie" coloration to it.
To clarify, my definition of "Hi-Fi" is dynamic and pleasing to the ear, rich, but with a lack of audible harmonic distortion or amp coloration; similar to what you would be looking for in a high end tube audio amp.
I also don't think it's a good or a bad thing, that's up to the individual player/listener, I personally like a touch of "hair" on my live tone most of the time.

Although neither the Peavey amps nor the 400+ are in this group, this IMO "semi-shootout" has some great examples of true "Hi-Fi" tube bass amps, the Reeves C225 and the Sadowsky SA200.

The Unofficial Small Sample-Size Preliminary Tube Head Shootout

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickenBoogie

The Mesa 400+ can be very hi-fi sounding. In fact, of all the current tube bass amps, it sits at the top of the pure clean toned hi-fi type list.

I thought that the 400+ was discontinued a few years ago, and I can't find it on the Mesa website.
Actually I can't find any tube bass amps on the site, do you have "scoop" on upcoming Mesa tube bass offerings?

If we're going to throw obsolete products into the "Hi-Fi" arena, the old 60 watt Sunns are literally a Dynaco Mk III high fidelity power amp and a lightly modified Dynaco PAS 1 mono preamp put in a box.
That's about as "Hi-Fi" as it's possible to get.

tfernandez · #14 09-30-2010, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ledyard

To assist you a bit further, what bass(basses) would you be using? how many strings? what type of music? in a band or just hobby/studio? or both?

You can certainly get hi-fi out of some tube amps but if thats all your after then I would steer away from tube amps myself.

diggin up the thread for a few questions and such.
im using a ibanez with custom bartolini's 4 string. those get a nice clean sound already. my band plays progressive rock/metal (dream theater style I guess you'd say) but thats not our or my limitation when it comes to style. we play some jazzy stuff for fun and i do play in a jazz band and do some funk slap stuff. the amp is for gigging/recording/practice needs.

I have already decided on getting the sunn 300t for the head. I have a yorkville 410b currently as my cab, but wanna get a 212 to either run both or just the 212. the amp has a 8/4/2 ohm switch so ohms isnt a big problem, (id like the new cab to be 8 ohm though so i can match it with the 410 if need be) any cabs that compliment this particular head well? Im thinking about going with a Gk neo 212 unless there is a cab that is better quality for maybe $100-$200 more.

the head runs 300watts at all ohm settings for anyone who doesnt know. current cab is 300w at 8ohm just for additional info

JimmyM · #15 09-30-2010, 12:46 AM

if i were you, i'd either get another yorky 410 just like yours or i'd go for a whole new cab rig, and most likely i'd choose the latter if at all possible. seems a shame to waste a good tube amp on a couple thrown together cabs.

also, forget the idea of "complimentary cabs" if you want a more hi-fi tone. almost all modern ported full range bass cabs can go as low or high as you need regardless of speaker size, so there's nothing to gain by mixing cabs.

tfernandez · #16 09-30-2010, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

if i were you, i'd either get another yorky 410 just like yours or i'd go for a whole new cab rig, and most likely i'd choose the latter if at all possible. seems a shame to waste a good tube amp on a couple thrown together cabs.

also, forget the idea of "complimentary cabs" if you want a more hi-fi tone. almost all modern ported full range bass cabs can go as low or high as you need regardless of speaker size, so there's nothing to gain by mixing cabs.

ah Jimmy, can always count on a quick response. well what kind of cab rig did you have in mind?