Mesa Boogie question

MichaelSmalley · #1 08-22-2011, 03:09 PM

Hey TB, I've searched around a bit but I could use some advice.

There is a Mesa Boogie 400 (not a 400+) on craigslist in my area. I've always wanted an all tube head, but I have some concerns. Is this head loud enough for club gigs? My rig right now is a hartke lh1000 and a hartke hydrive 410, which is plenty loud with minimal pa support. I've been told mesa had issues with the tubes in these heads and had to use replacement tubes that lowered the wattage or something. I know tube and solid state very wildly for power to loudness ratio, but I am at a loss here.

This amp crackles for about 5 minutes after turning it on, but after the tubes warm up it seems fine. Is that normal? A red flag?

How much are these things worth?

Thanks
-mike

nashvillebill · #2 08-22-2011, 03:34 PM

No idea what it should sell for.

It should be plenty loud enough for club gigs!!

I am concerned with the crackling on warmup. This could be as simple as a tube that needs replacing, or more troublesome, like a cap that needs replacing. I wouldn't have a problem with a few seconds worth of crackle as you first start to hear sound, but if it goes on for 5 minutes, that's not right.

Go to a tube vendor's site and price a completely new set of tubes. No need to get the Mesa or Groove Tubes, if you go to Eurotubes.com they can price a complete set. Then factor in what a tech would cost to go over the amp...

RCCollins · #3 08-22-2011, 03:38 PM

LMBO "is a 400+ loud enough for club gigs?"

Alex1984 · #4 08-22-2011, 03:43 PM

A Mesa 400 is DEFINITELY loud enough for bar gigs, assuming you got at least a 410.

LiquidMidnight · #5 08-22-2011, 11:42 PM

The issue Mesa had with tubes for the 400 was that their reliable source of Chinese 6550s went bust, so they had to start shipping new 400s with 6L6s, which had lower output. Mesa's eventual response was to design an amp around 12 6L6s, and thus the 400+ was born.

You can still acquire 6550s, though as was suggested before, I'd check out the kits sold by Eurotubes. The Mesa is a fixed bias amp, and you'll know that you'll be getting tubes matched up for this particular amp.

P.s. I should also add that my Hartke HyDrive does not get along well with my 400+. I don't know if it's because the speakers can't take the voltage spikes from a tube head, but I find that I hit the XMAX way too early with my Hartke as compared to my solid-state equipment. It behaves the same way with my all-tube Eden head. My Aguilars, on the other hand, sound awesome with my tube heads. It's depressing, because the HyDrives are such awesome sounding cabs.

chaosMK · #6 08-23-2011, 12:44 AM

$600 for a beaten up one, $800-900 for an awesome one (maintained, no retube) these days. If you can get it for $400-600, take it... shoot, I'll take it.

If you want to get the most out of the 400 (highly recommended), retube with KT-88's. You'll never need to run the master more than 3 1/2 (instead of ~5ish with 6L6). For JJ's it'll run you about $240!

I can't speak for the Hartke cabs, I've heard a few reputable dudes rocking them. Nothing beats Mesa PH cabs for me... they are bigger- shaped like cubes- and heavier than most but just sound huge compared to everything else. I do shootouts every week or two on what's new in my area and the PH 4x10 *always* blows away every cab (boutique, raved on TB, doesn't matter) on volume and tone with every head and every cab A/B.

There a few tricks to maximize volume on the 400. I run a Sansamp BDDI in the FX loop on mine on "Line" level and it gives me a huge (maybe +5db) clean boost... I suppose it's pushing the power tubes to their limit but bypassing the preamp gain stage. Running a PH 4x10 with the right EQ dialed in I've never had trouble cutting through the most epic drummers and 120w tube guitarist. I wish I had a 6x10 or PH 1000! You can put a 12AU7 in the right spot and it'll give you a little more preamp head room too. I've never done this though.

A 400 with KT-88's will probably sound a tiny bit dirtier than the 400+, but that's what I like about it. 400+ is too clean for me.

If you are interested in that beaten up one on ebay with the drawn on lettering right now, I wouldn't bid on it... you can find slightly better if patient.

chaosMK · #7 08-23-2011, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiquidMidnight

I'd check out the kits sold by Eurotubes. The Mesa is a fixed bias amp, and you'll know that you'll be getting tubes matched up for this particular amp.

I've retubed KT-88s a few times (upgrades, due to damages) and Bob sent me *totally* different tubes each time. I appreciate the dude and his tubes, but he sent me a dramatically different set of tubes each time. We ran some test on them and the first batch was way off from the second. Fortunately this head is pretty resilient (I ran it on 4 tubes for a spin).

MichaelSmalley · #8 08-23-2011, 07:49 AM

Thanks for the advice.

I know these amps sound good, but it sounds like they are a pain in the butt too. Maybe if I can get the price down a bit, below the $600 level it would be worth getting and if it is too much for me to worry about I could just sell it to someone who know *** a hot cap is. =)

MichaelSmalley · #9 08-25-2011, 04:31 PM

I got it! And I got quite a good deal on it. Thanks for the advice.

One last question- and this might be a total noob question, but that's fine with me. Above, someone warned me about using this amp with my cabinet (Hydrive 410). I played the head through my cab at a pretty high volume and it seemed fine, but at a gig... I might need to push the volume a little more. Does a little distortion hurt my cabinet? Is there a fine line between having a dirty tube sound and blowing up my speakers?

chaosMK · #10 08-25-2011, 08:08 PM

It'll depend which gain stage you like out of the head. If you crank the preamp you can get a little grit without running the power section super hard, and keep your output generally low.

If you like the way the power section breaks up (which usually sounds cooler to me on bass... preamp OD just feels loose) you would need to be cranking it... 8-10 is where it really shows itself. If you have 6L6's in it, it's not going to be a ridiculous amount of power thrown at your cab. I don't know much about the Hydrive 4x10 but if they are good quality you should probably be fine. When cranking it for power tube OD, run the bass at 1 and go from there. When you run the power tubes hard on this head the bass gets kind of exaggerated on it's own and the sweetness of the grit is on the higher freqs anyway.

coreyfyfe · #11 08-25-2011, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelSmalley

Does a little distortion hurt my cabinet? Is there a fine line between having a dirty tube sound and blowing up my speakers?

Distortion doesn't, just be mindful of how hard you're pushing the speakers - which might be harder to hear if the amp is putting out a distorted signal.

MichaelSmalley · #12 09-14-2011, 09:41 PM

Zombie Thread!

I've had my Mesa Boogie 400 for a few weeks now, and frankly it isn't as loud as I thought it would be. Everyone told me I should have plenty of power with it, but I had to have it cranked to 11 to be loud enough playing finger style. Slapping? That was waaaaay too distorted. Fuggetaboutit!

It's not like I play that loud with my LH1000, or that the venues where I play are THAT big... So what could make my Mesa amp be so wimpy? The guy I bought it from said there were about 30 hours of play on the tubes, and he seemed honest enough, could the tubes be bad already?

Maybe I should just sell the thing. Solid state amps seem much simpler.

mntngrown · #13 09-15-2011, 01:50 AM

I'll give you 500.00 shipped

coreyfyfe · #14 09-15-2011, 04:21 AM

Sounds odd to me. That amp should be plenty loud. How are you EQing? The mid control on that amp is cut only, something to keep in mind. If it's a 400, is it running 6L6s or 6550/KT88s?

rockstarbassist · #15 09-15-2011, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCCollins

LMBO "is a 400+ loud enough for club gigs?"

lol this ^^^

i got rid of mine even b/c i couldn't turn it up NEARLY enough for it to really pump and we play some pretty good sized clubs.

it'll do your "club" gig, as well as most 15,000+ amphitheaters as well no sweat.

Caca de Kick · #16 09-15-2011, 02:47 PM

How do you have your input and master volume knobs set?

chaosMK · #17 09-15-2011, 03:20 PM

Run a boost of any sort in your FX loop, will give you a noticeable clean increase.

Pull switches will give you more presence.

Make sure power section tubes are not badly mismatched.

paganjack · #18 09-15-2011, 09:58 PM

Also, are you familiar with the tone stack setup? 2/10/2 is flat technically.

MichaelSmalley · #19 09-15-2011, 11:09 PM

It isn't a 400+, its a 400. I've had it cranked to 11 at preamp and power stages, the knobs pulled out and everything I could think of, but it just didn't do the job. My LH1000 has way more beef. I was just surprised, and from what I'm hearing on this forum, there must be something wrong with it to max out so fast.

How would I know if the tubes weren't matched?

Alex1984 · #20 09-16-2011, 12:48 AM

Do you know if they're 6L6s or 6550s?