Mesa M9 w/ Sansamp RPM

slap5string · #1 09-10-2011, 06:52 AM

Hey Everyone! I recently purchased an M9 and a PH610 and was wondering if anyone has tried this combo w/ a Sansamp RPM. For the last two years I've been running a GK 700RBII w/ the sansamp into 2 GK SBX410's and while I loved this sound - I needed more ballz if you know what I mean! So I have this Mesa gear now and,...wow, such a different tone! Power for days but a bit hard to tame the mids. I was thinking of adding the Sansamp back into the fold but really don't want to get into the whole "knob twiddling" - balancing act of gain stages and tone shaping all over again. I play Musicman Sterling basses and no matter what I do, I can't seem to take enough mid out to be thick and warm w/o getting lost in the mix. Any ideas?

RickenBoogie · #2 09-10-2011, 07:28 AM

The M9 has a 5 position mid selector. It's not hard to tame the mids, 2 of the positions are mid cut. I see no reason to use an RPM with that amp at all.

slap5string · #3 09-10-2011, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickenBoogie

The M9 has a 5 position mid selector. It's not hard to tame the mids, 2 of the positions are mid cut. I see no reason to use an RPM with that amp at all.

That's what I was hoping. I really don't want to add more complexity to my rig - that is why I bought the M9 in the first place. I'm scooped-mid happy most of the time but
find myself lost in the mix because of it. I read a thread where Chef was saying he doesn't use the active switch ever - Im going to try that route and see how that works.

JGR · #4 09-10-2011, 10:14 AM

You would be better off trying something like the VT Bass into the front end. While some folks like running preamps into the front end of amps, it is a waste and less than optimal configuration IME.

Better yet is to find a bass, amp, and cab that work well together and you won't need to add all the other stuff. Why did you buy that head if you can't get the right sound out of it?

Gearhead17 · #5 09-10-2011, 12:37 PM

The Musicman Sterling is not a good bass for scooped mid bass tones. I can not stand playing them because they have a lot of midrange in the tone. Great for some, but not for me. Try a Stingray and you will have the tone you probably want right away.

You liked the Sansamp RPM/BDDI because each unit removed the midrange somewhat heavily. The cutting point is centered at 750hz. So basically, 500hz-900hz is reduced semi-strongly. Take the slider at 600hz and slide it down a little bit. You can take out the midrange a little bit, but as you already figured out, it does work in a live setting to well. Especially with a hard rock or metal band.

Edit - Try position #1 and #2 on the Voice knob. It cuts the midrange probably the way you want it.

lo-freq · #6 09-10-2011, 02:04 PM

The Sansamp Para Driver is the pedal version of the RPM (minus a few things, but substantially cheaper, especially if you buy used).

No comment on the tone though.

slap5string · #7 09-10-2011, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gearhead17

The Musicman Sterling is not a good bass for scooped mid bass tones. I can not stand playing them because they have a lot of midrange in the tone. Great for some, but not for me. Try a Stingray and you will have the tone you probably want right away.

You liked the Sansamp RPM/BDDI because each unit removed the midrange somewhat heavily. The cutting point is centered at 750hz. So basically, 500hz-900hz is reduced semi-strongly. Take the slider at 600hz and slide it down a little bit. You can take out the midrange a little bit, but as you already figured out, it does work in a live setting to well. Especially with a hard rock or metal band.

Edit - Try position #1 and #2 on the Voice knob. It cuts the midrange probably the way you want it.

I am definately going to try another bass with this amp and cab. I love the sound of the Sterling through the GK amp - maybe not the bass for this setup. Currently looking to purchase a P-Bass or Stingray.

andrew · #8 09-10-2011, 04:05 PM

I've used the M9 with both the RPM and RBI pre's into the front of it and the VT bass pedal and I think all three sound killer.

andrew · #9 09-10-2011, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JGR

While some folks like running preamps into the front end of amps, it is a waste and less than optimal configuration IME.

Better yet is to find a bass, amp, and cab that work well together and you won't need to add all the other stuff. Why did you buy that head if you can't get the right sound out of it?

I respectfully disagree. If it takes a pedal or extra pre to get to the sound you're after then I think you should go for it.

Sometimes an amp that gives you that exact sound you have in your head doesn't exist, or is out of your price range or carrying capacity. If you can use a cheaper/smaller amp and get into the tone zone you want with some external eq then I say why not?

JGR · #10 09-10-2011, 07:40 PM

Sure, but your bass, amp, and guitar should get you 95% there. If you don't have a solid inherent foundation that works for you, you need to rethink your rig rather than piling on more stuff in the signal chain. They key is getting everything to work as a system, right down to the strings you use. Once you find that magic formula, it's easy. It doesn't sound like the OP is digging his M9, and if that's the case, he should find another amp and/or cab.

tech21nyc · #11 09-13-2011, 10:57 AM

There is no inherent mid-scoop in the RPM or Para Driver DI. With the blend off and the controls at noon the signal will be flat. With the blend on there is a slight rise in the bass and high end but this can be flattened out with the EQ controls if so desired.

swspiers · #12 09-13-2011, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tech21nyc

There is no inherent mid-scoop in the RPM or Para Driver DI. With the blend off and the controls at noon the signal will be flat. With the blend on there is a slight rise in the bass and high end but this can be flattened out with the EQ controls if so desired.

+1

And even with the blend full-on, you can still add about as much mid as you'd ever want. Or back off the bass and/or treble to flatten.

The only time the PDDI is mid-scooped is when I want it to be...

rockstarbassist · #13 09-13-2011, 12:11 PM

^^^ to what was said about the Voice selector (1 and 2 scoop mids) and then you also have the Graphic EQ.
I use Voice 2 which is a medium scoop for fingerstyle and the GEQ to bump them back in when using a pick.

Jim Carr · #14 09-13-2011, 12:23 PM

I have both, like both, and generally only use the ParaDI with passive or piezo instruments. No reason you can't stick one in front of the M9 Carbine, no matter what bass or cab. If it sounds good, it is good.

slap5string · #15 09-14-2011, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Carr

I have both, like both, and generally only use the ParaDI with passive or piezo instruments. No reason you can't stick one in front of the M9 Carbine, no matter what bass or cab. If it sounds good, it is good.

I used to run my signal chain w/ the GK 700RBII like this:
Bass > Sansamp input > GK input
Is this the optimum way? Or is it possible to run the sansamp in the effects loop?

tech21nyc · #16 09-15-2011, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slap5string

I used to run my signal chain w/ the GK 700RBII like this:
Bass > Sansamp input > GK input
Is this the optimum way? Or is it possible to run the sansamp in the effects loop?

An alternative way to run the RPM with you bass amp is with an A/B switcher. Using this method allows you to use both your bass amp's preamp and the RPM independently. Basically you will have a two channel amp.

To do this you would plug your bass into the RPM's input. Then take the uneffected out of the RPM and send that to the input of your bass amp. The next step is to take the effects send of your amp and run that to the A channel of of an A/B box. (this is the one I use. SELECTOR® INSTRUMENT SWITCH - Catalog - Whirlwind) Next you take the SansAmp output from the RPM and run that to the B channel of the A/B box. Finally you take the I/O (in/out) port of the A/B box and send that to the efx return/power amp in on your bass amp. Now when you toggle between channels A and B of the A/B box you will hear your bass amp's preamp or the RPM.

It sounds a little confusing but in practice it's quite simple and works well.

Gearhead17 · #17 09-15-2011, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tech21nyc

There is no inherent mid-scoop in the RPM or Para Driver DI. With the blend off and the controls at noon the signal will be flat. With the blend on there is a slight rise in the bass and high end but this can be flattened out with the EQ controls if so desired.

I think the tech21nyc.com site needs to reflect this in the product descriptions. Or maybe some sort of tone comparison chart between the Para Driver and the BDDI.

tech21nyc · #18 09-20-2011, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gearhead17

I think the tech21nyc.com site needs to reflect this in the product descriptions. Or maybe some sort of tone comparison chart between the Para Driver and the BDDI.

The Para Driver DI is an all purpose instrument preamp and DI for a wide range of instruments whereas the Bass Driver DI given it's nomenclature is obviously designed for bass guitar use. The Para Driver DI started out as an acoustic instrument DI and the SansAmp circuitry and blend functions were added when the product was updated. Its higher input impedance also makes it compatible with piezo pickups.

It would be pointless to do a tonal comparison since you can make both units sound pretty much alike if so desired. You can also adjust both units to sound pretty different from one another as well and the instrument used would add another variable as well.