Mesa Powerhouse 1000/1200

[Gearhead17]

I just got off the phone with Mesa Boogie Tech Help. I spoke to Marcus over there and he was very helpful. I wanted to share some information about Mesa's design process with speakers, particularly with the Powerhouse 1000/1200. I also wanted to share this information because the main website is less than welcoming on specifications and/or design processes.

The Powerhouse 1000/1200 are the 410 and 15 all in one box design. The cabinet is nothing special - it is purely the Powerhouse 15 and Powerhouse 410 put into one box. No special crossover between the 10's and the 15. Each speaker is putting out the same sound. I asked Marcus about excursion limits and how the 115 is going to give up before the four 10's ever break a sweat. He says that it really should not be noticeable on this particular cab. The sheer volume would make up for that. I also asked him in regards to the beaming of midrange frequencies through the 115 and how the 10's will disperse the midrange frequencies a little differently. He replied the engineers really did not care about those factors and may have just corrected it with the porting designs of the cab.

He also commented on their design process for speaker cabs. He has been a minor part of it, and most of this information is second hand, but it is still important. As far as tuning/porting and design speakers, Mesa Engineers typically do this part by ear and do not measure frequencies, volume or much of anything. If it sounds good to them, they roll with it. They are not concerned with presenting that particular information to the general public. They receive a lot of flack for this from the bass community regarding that, but they continue on.

In the end, Mesa makes some excellent products. I have had great success with their products in the past.

I will conclude by saying the Powerhouse 1000 and 1200 are PROBABLY the worst designed cabinet offered by Mesa. ON PAPER they look terrible - I can not back that up on sound since I have not tried either long enough to make a statement. The rest of their gear, though, is superb.

[georgestrings]

Yeah, I'm a big Mesa fan - I own a couple of their cabs and one of their amps, have owned several others besides - and am definitely NOT a fan of the PH1000 or 1200... Sure, they sound really good - until you directly compare them to Mesa's other big cabs in that class: the PH215, 610, 810, and 412 - then, the 1000/1200's shortcomings become apparant... The other big Mesa cabs all are deeper sounding, with clearer highs, and will get louder - not too mention that they can all be pushed harder without farting out...

When I bought my PH610, the shop also had a PH1000 for the same price, in about the same condition... I *thought* I wanted the 1000 'til I A/B'd both cabs for awhile, and ended up buying the 610... That's not saying I'm not a fan of 15s, btw - as I bought a brand new PH215 not long ago, and am pretty happy with it... I also like 10s, because my main gigging cab is a PH810 - I just don't think that 10s and 15s are meant to be combined...

One of these days, I'll hook up both my PH215 and PH810 at the same time, and will report back on how it works out - but for now, it's quite unneccesary, as either cab will get more than loud enough by itself for any gig I play... and FWIW, I play in a LOUD 2 guitar band - with 2 Triple Rec halfstacks...


- georgestrings

[rpsands]

The Ph1000/1200 are junk. The 610 demolishes either one. Yes, I've tried them and seen them all in action multiple times.

[RickenBoogie]

I'm another big fan of mesa's bass gear, especially their amps. I've owned quite a few of their cabs as well, and auditioned the PH1200, along with several other cabs, (15, 210, 410, 610) It's all true, the 1200 is the worst of the bunch, though if you had nothing to compare it to, you'd think it's awesome. I've long since sold off all my PH cabs, and even the Deisels, in favor of smaller, lighter stuff- but continue to use a Walkabout head as well as an M3 carbine- a pair of 300 watt bass amps that sound nothing alike- yet both are supremely musical. Just shows to go ya on spkr cab design, even a great MI maker can put out a dud.

[NKBassman]

I had a PH1200 for a few years, and I thought it was awesome. I never tried any of their other large cabs though, so I don't have any basis for comparison.

Unfortunately our band broke up and the van broke down shortly after, so I had no way to move it around any more (wouldn't fit in my car), so I had to sell it.

[Crabby]

I also did a direct comparison on the Powehouse1200 to some of the other Mesa cabs and found it seriously lacking in comparison. It sounded fat and muddy with little note definition and not much punch. Like many others, if you heard this cab on its own with nothing to compare it to, you would likely be impressed by the deep thunder it puts out. But as soon as I tried the PH412, it was like night and day. The PH412 is so articulate, tight, punchy, deep loud and crystal clear. It makes the PH1200 sound like total mud in comparison. I have yet to hear a single cabinet that has the quality of tone that the PH412 produces at any volume. My PH410 paired with a new PH210 is a worthy contender though. this combo is smoother and a bit tighter but the 412 just slays everything!

[klejst]

A while back when I was looking for a new single cab I tried out both a PH1200 and PH610...yeah after it all I went with the 610 and have never even had the itch to look back. Lets just say it was one of the best yet simplest choices I have ever made when it came to gear. The 610 is simply rockin'!

[JGR]

Too bad they don't put a bit more science behind their designs as their construction is top notch. Maybe that explains why the older designs from EV get so much (more) love.

[garmenteros]

I've got a mesa powerhouse 1000. I've got no complaints about it other than its heavy. That said I've just tried their other cabs at guitar center and played lots of ampegs, gks, warwicks at jam sessions and it blows them away. I owned a gk neo 212 and no contest either. I would like a 2 15 from them one day when I retire or sell the powerhouse.

A bit off topic but how does the fender 2 15 compare to the mesa 2 15?

[will33]

I'd have to agree with the others here. I didn't know anything about speakers at the time but the 1000 I played at a few rehearsals was just plain louder than the carvin stuff I had at the time but it didn't have any "focus" to the sound. Just big, loud, loose, undefined sound that you couldn't get away from with any amount of knob twisting. Knowing what I know now, yeah, it's a truely flawed design.

[Bassflute]

from a number of years back;

Mesa PowerHouse 1000 Bass Cabinet:

This cabinet is just TOTALLY absurd; it goes against EVERYTHING they would teach you in an audio engineering school. Stick a 15" speaker in the middle of a 4x10" cabinet where the tweeter should be. Ridiculous: big, HEAVY!!!!, way too many speakers in there (4x10 + 15" + tweeter), not enough porting, the wood's about 2" thick, stupidly big and heavy, looks totally OBSCENE, a complete absurdity in audio engineering, I just know it's going to sound like s***. It's going to HONK, it's going to rumble, with a nasty low frequency fart, and with a horrible scratchy crisp bright top end that's gonna hurt. I just KNOW it's going to suck just by looking at it. Looks like a hoser from Surrey (Vancouver's equivalent to a bad part of New Jersey or Oakland) said "hey dude, like, let's stick a 15" in 'er'". If the 'Trailer Park Boys' designed a bass cabinet, this would be it.

But you know, put away your slide rules, let 'win isp' or whatever that software audio analyzer is called crash (again!), you plug the thing in and it sounds absolutely AMAZING! Makes an Ampeg 8x10 sound like a pair of anaemic headphones. Our stupid instrument, the electric bass, somehow calls for absurdity in audio engineering for it to work properly, and some cabinets just do it, man, and this is one of them. One of the BEST electric bass sounds I have ever heard in my life, right up there with the 15" Genelec monitors I heard in a studio once. It shouldn't work, it looks absurd, audio engineers will either A) cry or B) wet their pants laughing when they see it, but it, I think, is possibly the best electric bass cabinet ever made. Deep, like REALLY deep, punchy, clean, accurate, fast, bright top end, it just has it all. Amazing sound. Possibly designed by a 15 year old heavy metal guitarist who smokes too much dope, but man, the thing just sounds wonderful. I would NEVER buy one unless I had an ox to move it around for me, but one of those rare, stupid things that just works. Magical. An amazing accident. A total fluke; they must've been drunk when they did it. Totally stupid. Nuts. It's amazing that they brought it to market, but I'm glad they did. The thing sounds like God; I want two so I can run stereo.

Soundwise, 9.99999999/10, but drops to 5/10 if you factor in stuff like practicality and weight. But don't do that. A totally devastating product. The 15-year-old hoser metalhead from Jersey had the right idea. Pure genious, stupid, nuts, shouldn't work at all, a complete and total fluke I'm sure. No one could be serious about a cab like this. Insane! The Shelby Cobra of bass cabs; no wait (or should I say weight)! The Cobra was light, clean, elegant. This is garish, over-the-top, absurd, too big, gross, it'll never sell! I can just imagine the committee meetings at Mesa on this one; 'You wannna do WHAT!!!!???? Are you INSANE???" It's the Dodge Viper of speaker cabinets (ever been in one?). The most fun you can have with your pants on, and one of the greatest things ever produced.

Just my HO, flame suit on,
Cameron

Originally Posted by Gearhead17

I just got off the phone with Mesa Boogie Tech Help. I spoke to Marcus over there and he was very helpful. I wanted to share some information about Mesa's design process with speakers, particularly with the Powerhouse 1000/1200. I also wanted to share this information because the main website is less than welcoming on specifications and/or design processes.

The Powerhouse 1000/1200 are the 410 and 15 all in one box design. The cabinet is nothing special - it is purely the Powerhouse 15 and Powerhouse 410 put into one box. No special crossover between the 10's and the 15. Each speaker is putting out the same sound. I asked Marcus about excursion limits and how the 115 is going to give up before the four 10's ever break a sweat. He says that it really should not be noticeable on this particular cab. The sheer volume would make up for that. I also asked him in regards to the beaming of midrange frequencies through the 115 and how the 10's will disperse the midrange frequencies a little differently. He replied the engineers really did not care about those factors and may have just corrected it with the porting designs of the cab.

He also commented on their design process for speaker cabs. He has been a minor part of it, and most of this information is second hand, but it is still important. As far as tuning/porting and design speakers, Mesa Engineers typically do this part by ear and do not measure frequencies, volume or much of anything. If it sounds good to them, they roll with it. They are not concerned with presenting that particular information to the general public. They receive a lot of flack for this from the bass community regarding that, but they continue on.

In the end, Mesa makes some excellent products. I have had great success with their products in the past.

I will conclude by saying the Powerhouse 1000 and 1200 are PROBABLY the worst designed cabinet offered by Mesa. ON PAPER they look terrible - I can not back that up on sound since I have not tried either long enough to make a statement. The rest of their gear, though, is superb.

They sound like God. Sorry. Read above. And I don't even LIKE Mesa stuff.

Originally Posted by rpsands

The Ph1000/1200 are junk. The 610 demolishes either one. Yes, I've tried them and seen them all in action multiple times.

Originally Posted by Crabby

I also did a direct comparison on the Powehouse1200 to some of the other Mesa cabs and found it seriously lacking in comparison. It sounded fat and muddy with little note definition and not much punch. Like many others, if you heard this cab on its own with nothing to compare it to, you would likely be impressed by the deep thunder it puts out. But as soon as I tried the PH412, it was like night and day. The PH412 is so articulate, tight, punchy, deep loud and crystal clear. It makes the PH1200 sound like total mud in comparison. I have yet to hear a single cabinet that has the quality of tone that the PH412 produces at any volume. My PH410 paired with a new PH210 is a worthy contender though. this combo is smoother and a bit tighter but the 412 just slays everything!

Just plain wrong. It's not 'mid-forward {we used to call it 'honky} in the slightest. It's a balanced, big, deep, crispy punchy sound like nothing else. Greatest bass cabinet EVER produced, even if it WAS a fluke. And I A/B'd it with an Ampeg 8x10. The Ampeg sounded like a teeny little fartbox next to this thing. And the sheer VOLUME it produces is menacing. Again, it's a balanced sound, with deep DEEP lows, low mids, mids, highs, and everything is there in great abundance.

Originally Posted by garmenteros

I've got a mesa powerhouse 1000. I've got no complaints about it other than its heavy. That said I've just tried their other cabs at guitar center and played lots of ampegs, gks, warwicks at jam sessions and it blows them away. I owned a gk neo 212 and no contest either. I would like a 2 15 from them one day when I retire or sell the powerhouse.

No kidding. Greatest bass cab ever produced. I have not heard anything better, and I've heard (and owned) a lot.

I want two so I can run stereo. And someone to move them for me. And a house in an isolated area so I can practice with them without complaints.

Cheers,
Cameron

[Bassflute]

Originally Posted by will33

I'd have to agree with the others here. I didn't know anything about speakers at the time but the 1000 I played at a few rehearsals was just plain louder than the carvin stuff I had at the time but it didn't have any "focus" to the sound. Just big, loud, loose, undefined sound that you couldn't get away from with any amount of knob twisting. Knowing what I know now, yeah, it's a truely flawed design.

put the back pickup on, stainless strings, play with strong attack and you CERTAINLY won't get the sound you're describing. And the 'focus' you're describing is usually WAY too much midrange - we used to call it 'honk'. Put your back pickup on and play through one of those cabs like that - you probably won't like the sound you're getting.

Cheers,
Cameron

[chaosMK]

I played through a PH 1000 with an M-Pulse many years ago for one show. It severely blew away the Ampeg stuff (SVT-4, CL cabs etc) that I was using at the time.

I haven't tried the big Mesa cabs like 6x10, 8x10, or 4x12 (would love to), I am sure they are killer.

[lomo]

Not impressive.....at all.......fail, even, IMHO This correlates with Mesa sales people giving out tech info that is just plain flat wrong (another TBer posted that he was told that tens are bad for bass, and they have told many buyers, including me, to get the 12 inch Walkabout combo in 4 Ohm, to max out all the 300 watts, even though the driver farts at about half that). I love many of their products, but this makes it sound like their cabs are designed by players, rather than acoustic engineers........and that's like having your appendix taken out by a psychiatrist.......yeah.......it might turn out OK but......

Originally Posted by Gearhead17

As far as tuning/porting and design speakers, Mesa Engineers typically do this part by ear and do not measure frequencies, volume or much of anything. If it sounds good to them, they roll with it. They are not concerned with presenting that particular information to the general public. They receive a lot of flack for this from the bass community regarding that, but they continue on.

[will33]

Originally Posted by Bassflute

put the back pickup on, stainless strings, play with strong attack and you CERTAINLY won't get the sound you're describing. And the 'focus' you're describing is usually WAY too much midrange - we used to call it 'honk'. Put your back pickup on and play through one of those cabs like that - you probably won't like the sound you're getting.

Cheers,
Cameron

One pickup, 2 pickups, 3 pivkups didn't matter. Sometimes you couldn't get any more "V" eq without shoving the middle slider through the bottom of the amp, sometimes it couldn't get anymore "^" without shoving it through the top and sometimes the eq wasn't even switched on. Didn't matter to the cab. The thing was loud but that's all it was. Nothing nice to say about it's tone, or rather lack of it. The thing sounded like beating on a wood box no matter what you did. I was supposed to like it, it was supposed to be better, afterall, this ain't no budget stuff, it's a popular brand name that's expensive.....didn't happen. Mesa's made some nice stuff but that isn't one of them.

Different strokes I suppose.

[georgestrings]

[quote=Bassflute;11699664
No kidding. Greatest bass cab ever produced. I have not heard anything better, and I've heard (and owned) a lot.


Cheers,
Cameron[/QUOTE]


It's obvious to me that you've never A/B'd it against Mesa's other big cabs - namely, the PH215, PH610, PH810, or PH412 - because it's not even close to ANY of them, let alone the "greatest bass cab ever produced"...

I HAVE A/B'd both the PH1000 and PH1200 to the other 4 cabs I named, and IME they fail miserably when compared to the rest of Mesa's big cab lineup...


- georgestrings

[RickenBoogie]

+1 to that^.

[Crabby]

Cameron, you need to read these posts a little more carefully. Yes compared to an Ampeg 810, the Powerhouse will sound louder, deeper fuller. I have made this direct comparison myself. But the conversation is about how the PH1200 compares to the other large Mesa cabs. Most who have compared the PH1200 with the PH810, 610 or 412 agree that the 1200 sounds nowhere near as good when compared to these other cabs.

If you own or have used a PH1200 but have never made this comparison, you will not have a frame of reference to refer to.









Just plain wrong. It's not 'mid-forward {we used to call it 'honky} in the slightest. It's a balanced, big, deep, crispy punchy sound like nothing else. Greatest bass cabinet EVER produced, even if it WAS a fluke. And I A/B'd it with an Ampeg 8x10. The Ampeg sounded like a teeny little fartbox next to this thing. And the sheer VOLUME it produces is menacing. Again, it's a balanced sound, with deep DEEP lows, low mids, mids, highs, and everything is there in great abundance.



No kidding. Greatest bass cab ever produced. I have not heard anything better, and I've heard (and owned) a lot.

I want two so I can run stereo. And someone to move them for me. And a house in an isolated area so I can practice with them without complaints.

Cheers,
Cameron[/quote]

[Pooshoes]

I have to disagree with the PH1000/1200 negativity (BTW they are both the same unit, they had just upgraded the power handling in the name for marketing reasons, as confirmed by MESA)

I believe that great tone has to start with first the Player, then the Bass, then the amp and then all matched to the appropriate cab which can properly handle the frequencies that amp is pumping out, in a musical way.

When I went out and bought a pro bass rig I had to do a lot of testing to find the perfect combo of amps and cabs. I tested many different amps by Ampeg/SWR/Aguilar/Peavy/MESA and tried my favourite amps on different manufacturer's cabs in various different designs.

In the end I matched an Ampeg SVT-6 Pro with the Mesa PH1200 and couldn't be happier. This amp is so warm and tight with the ability to dial in the bass frequencies perfectly for this cab. The 'Boominess' can be dialed back to leave those root frequencies audible, balanced and tight in the mix. This setup can get loud and sound great. Never had a problem with farting, BTW, even with this 1100watt amp cranked.

Compared to the Ampeg 8x12 and even the MESA 6x10 cab I enjoyed the bottom note extension on a 5 string bass the 15" helped pump out. I've played many gigs through an Ampeg 8x10 but truly enjoyed the stage sound I got with the PH1200 wayyyyy more.

If you're using this cab in a room with low ceilings your going to definitely feel that the sound is muddy, remember, that 15" really pumps out those big waves. Take it to a big stage, open air gigs, or a nice listening studio with 16' roofs and properly set your eq for the cab and you'll be in heaven.

I don' think that the sound this cab pumps out is all that different from most 4x10" + 15" stacked set-ups but it definately adds some unique character with the porting design, and heavy duty construction. I also like the convenience of a big sound in a relatively small package. It is heavy for a 2nd floor gig... but still lighter then that Ampeg 8x10.

In the end I say, get this cab for the big gigs and get a lighter 4x10" for the small gigs.

[walkerci]

Based on my experience with a pair of Mesa Powerhouse 112s and my Bergantino NV412, I gotta believe that a Mesa Powerhouse 412 would decisively stomp a PH1000/1200 into the ground in spl and tone departments.

Unfortunately my days of lugging 100+ pound cabs around are almost over.