Micro Rigs?

[Yahtzee89]

Sorry if this has been asked before TB, but it's 5:30 AM here and I am sleep deprived (yet I still can't sleep, what's that about?)


Myself and three friends are getting a band together, it's a post-hardcore band, while it's not death metal, it's not subdued either. This all hits a brick wall however when I still have my Hartke 15 watt practice amp....

So, previously I was planning to go the stack route with a 210 and a 410, however God did not bless me with upper body strength, a car or large amounts of storage space, so I think a micro rig is the way to go.

I have my doubts as to whether a micro rig could cut it, I don't mean "is it loud enough to gig", I've studied music tech for three years and am now at University to study it for a further three, if I cannot mic up a cab then there is no hope for the British education system. (Not a fan of DI'ing, the cab adds to the sound, why DI before the signal reaches the cab?)

I am not a thunderous lows kinda guy, I like my bass sound to have some punch, from my experience punch comes from low mid rather than lows. So I am not worried if my rig cannot shake your teeth out at 100 yards. So I am hopeful, but not convinced.

I was looking at the Ampeg Micro thingie, (with a view to getting a second cab when funds allow) as I love the aesthetics and am a fan of the Ampeg sound that is so prevalent in the Alt-Rock side of the music industry.

So, 1) do you guys think a micro rig would be up to the task at hand?

And 2) what are the best options? bearing in mind my initial budget (for head and cab 1) is £500 (~$750)

Thanks in advance.

Yahtzee.

P.S. Also, I do not play 5 string, so no low B for the amp to cope with. 4 strings is enough for my top 5 bass infulences, so it's enough for me

[DanNowhere]

The Ampeg Micro is getting all kinds of love here lately, and I'm about ready to drink the kool-aid myself. I just got one of the cabs to try with a different head (V4BH) for practicing/recording, but I'm seriously considering getting the micro head and a second cabinet for gigs. My new band is playing good clubs with real soundmen, so if I can get a sound I like with it and let them mic it, I'm golden. Sounds like what you're after too, possibly.

[JimmyM]

tonally it's so close to the sound of my vintage svt rig that i've been gigging on it since i got it and haven't used the tube amps. won't pretend it's the quite the same but it's definitely got the sound, and i'm not exactly a bodybuilder so i'm enjoying not doing heavy lifting on a day to day basis. i think if you get two cabs it'll be a solid performer for what you're looking for. one cab, however, could go either way. it's a 150w 210 combo (200w with two cabs) and it's definitely not shy, so i think it could work for you if you're not looking to rattle teeth.

[Yahtzee89]

Cheers for the replies, as I say, as long as the tone is what I'm after I can mic it up for volume.

[thedevilisbad]

I tried one at Elderly's the other day, and I was really impressed. (Although, I was using a vintage P-Bass too...)

Anyways, I thought it had great volume and tone. It also has a DI on the back of the head, which although you're not a fan of, can come in really handy at venues that don't have super nice mics (I've played at places that have tried to mic a bass cab with a SM57 or SM58).

As far as being able to be heard... I guess it depends on the people you play with. I was able to blend with a 100W 115 amp, but that was because my friends were using small tube combo amps.

The microbass head might be cool to plug into some type of 212 cab too... maybe give you a bit more than a 210, although it sounded pretty darn good.

[Yahtzee89]

Originally Posted by thedevilisbad

I've played at places that have tried to mic a bass cab with a SM57 or SM58

That would annoy me no end, studying music tech has put me in the position of not being able to listen to some of my favourite music because of poor production, and wanting to mic up a bass cab with two mics when the channels are available...

A 57 doesn't do a bad job of the mids and highs, but you need something for the lows, my pick is an AKG D112, yeah, it is a bass drum mic, but that means it does a superb job of picking up bass frequencies....


I'm going to annoy the hell out of the sound men I work with aren't I

[thedevilisbad]

Originally Posted by Yahtzee89

A 57 doesn't do a bad job of the mids and highs, but you need something for the lows, my pick is an AKG D112, yeah, it is a bass drum mic, but that means it does a superb job of picking up bass frequencies....


I'm going to annoy the hell out of the sound men I work with aren't I

That's what I was going to say actually, haha. I agree with the cab adding to the sound but sometimes I think it's so minuscule, especially for live performance, that DI are sometimes the way to go. Especially if they have nice subs.

I run sound for local shows and at church. At church the bassist doesn't have an amp, they have a Tech 21 and 2 really big awesome sounding Yamaha Subs.

At local shows, well at my "venue", I mic vocals and that's pretty much it. I tell the bands to blend they're own volume levels (and thus far it's worked really really well), but that's another story.

Sound guys are permanently annoyed, you can't do any more damage than what has already been done. Just try to smile

[JimmyM]

i like a flatter response mic for live work like an re 20 or the heil pr 40 i've been using for a couple years. you can eq the scoop out of a kick mic, but i figure why not start with something more suited?

[Yahtzee89]

When I was doing live sound (as part of the tech syllabus) at college I found my self in a state of permanent annoyance to be honest. There were two courses, the music tech, and music practice.

The practice students just didn't get live sound, they'd max out their amps volume so front of house had little to no control over the mix, and then they'd ask for more in their monitors... "No, because they'll feed back, how's about you turn your amp down a little so you can hear the smegging monitors?" The message never got through

I much prefer studio work to live sound, I enjoy studio work, all live sound does is raise the blood pressure .


@ Jimmy, my mic solution comes mostly from studio work where you have much more control, and there's normally a large diaphragm condenser in there as well if I have any say about it. I have a crush on the Rhode NT1A, not the best, but for the money it cannot be beaten.


Edit: Just googled the PR 40, (college didn't have tonnes of money, so my mic experience isn't that vast), looks like a pretty decent piece of kit, may have to invest in one for the home studio... Ya know, after I win the lottery and build a home studio.

[johnk_10]

funny. i could never find a use for a D112 on anything. i like AKG mics, but not that one. even for a kick. IMO, a 57 works great, and a 421 or a RE20 even better.

[Yahtzee89]

The Shure Beta 52 got more use than the AKG, but I liked them both, the Shure tended to be more forgiving on a less than perfectly tuned kick I found, though maybe I was imagining it.


Also, how to take a thread off topic in 5 easy posts :P. Tbh, I was more or less sold on the Ampeg before I posted, so I don't mind the off topic-ness, haven't had a good techie talk for looong time!

[thedevilisbad]

Originally Posted by johnk_10

funny. i could never find a use for a D112 on anything. i like AKG mics, but not that one. even for a kick. IMO, a 57 works great, and a 421 or a RE20 even better.

Maybe yours is defective Different strokes for different folks.

As far as live sound, yes, I've run into that. The place I run shows at is a Symphony Orchestra rehearsal hall (http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/mi...ony.Orchestra/). It's super acoustically active, so I let the room do the work for me. Not to mention, I have like 0 money and any of the sound equipment I use is borrowed. The vocalists get monitors and are put through the mains, as are acoustic guitars. It's turned out pretty well.

If I hijacked this thread sorry...

[onionpuzzle]

a good rule to follow is to get an amp (without mic-ing) that is as loud as the loudest drum parts

sure, live you can always mic or go DI, but what if there's no PA, and what about rehearsals, or spontaneous gigs, etc.

[johnk_10]

Originally Posted by thedevilisbad

Maybe yours is defective Different strokes for different folks.

nope. when i bought it (new) and tried it, i thought that it had to be defective, but i tried four others and they were all the same. dull, muffled and lifeless.

Originally Posted by johnk_10

nope. when i bought it (new) and tried it, i thought that it had to be defective, but i tried four others and they were all the same. dull, muffled and lifeless.

Gotta agree... My pick of the litter is the ubiquitous EV RE20. It's great for just about everything in the studio (including competing nicely with quality LD condenser mics), and perfect for kick and bass in a live sit. You'll also get more volume before feedback from the RE20 (compared to the 57/58.

I know a sax'ist who carries both the RE20 and Senn 421. That way he's sure to get a good sound thru the PA, AND make the sound crew happy.

As for the OP's question, first I'll say use your ears. If you like the Ampeg Micro, it's a good bet. Plus, it should keep up with all but the loudest drummers. Then you can treat your sound like the drummer's... meaning, if the drum kit is mic'ed, your amp should be as well (or better yet, DI'ed). Adding the second cab will be mostly for the loudest shows, but it WILL satisfy you sound wise to have it up higher and closer to your ears, and get the extra headroom from the little Ampeg.

FWIW, for the last decade or so, I've gigged (in one cover band) with just a 90 watt Traynor YBA1A MkII and one sealed 2x12 8 ohm cabinet (sometimes 2),which is very similar to the Ampeg 210, and it sounded just right with the drums. I've moved up to the TCE head now, and still like using the 2x12.

I believe you'll enjoy the micro rig, whichever brand you pick up. There are quite a few worthy brands available now too!

[Yahtzee89]

Originally Posted by onionpuzzle

but what if there's no PA

Then our vocalist is screwed

[onionpuzzle]

Originally Posted by Yahtzee89

Then our vocalist is screwed

LOL ! I forgot....I've been in Jazz/Rock/Etc Instrumental bands since 2004....duh, there's a thing called a singer that would need a PA.

[Yahtzee89]

Back on topic (kinda).

You suggested a second cab Jimmy, I was planning on getting one, both for the extra 50 watts, and for the extra speakers, thus extra air movement. But also for vanities sake...

I know I can't afford/transport an 810, but they just look so cool, I'm not sure a micro rig has the same presence on stage! The Ampeg with two cabs does at least kinda look the part.

[EskimoBassist]

All about the Audix D6! Great mic.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by Yahtzee89

Back on topic (kinda).

You suggested a second cab Jimmy, I was planning on getting one, both for the extra 50 watts, and for the extra speakers, thus extra air movement. But also for vanities sake...

I know I can't afford/transport an 810, but they just look so cool, I'm not sure a micro rig has the same presence on stage! The Ampeg with two cabs does at least kinda look the part.

ya, a two 210 av stack would definitely look bigger and throw more sound. won't be quite as loud but it would be pretty tall and definitely plenty of air movement. btw, bass gear mag did a test of the micro vr head at 4 ohms, and they think it puts out closer to 250w. not that 50w makes a huge volume difference, but there would be a little more headroom.