Mid Range box with crossover - thoughts?

**IvanMike** · #1 05-25-2010, 12:31 AM

Just kicking around the idea of using a six or eight with one of my existing 1x15 or 1x12 cabs. No way i can get one to fit, and i don't for a moment think it would be optimal just shoving one in.

So the question is, if i want to do a self build and make a box with one or two sixes or eights and use a passive crossover with it and send the "lows" to an existing 8 ohm "woofer" box, how would i go about doing this and is it a stupid idea?

I'm assuming that i'd end up with a 4 ohm "two piece cab", or is it a better idea to use a 16 as the smaller driver and end up with a 5.33?

What if i wanted to add a third smaller driver to make it 3 way? (not necessarily a horn).

and finally, assuming a 2 ohm stable amp, would something like this be useable with 2 eight ohm "woofer" boxes?

Let's see what the experts have to say.........

Passinwind · #2 05-25-2010, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IvanMike

Just kicking around the idea of using a six or eight with one of my existing 1x15 or 1x12 cabs. No way i can get one to fit, and i don't for a moment think it would be optimal just shoving one in.

So the question is, if i want to do a self build and make a box with one or two sixes or eights and use a passive crossover with it and send the "lows" to an existing 8 ohm "woofer" box, how would i go about doing this and is it a stupid idea?

I'm assuming that i'd end up with a 4 ohm "two piece cab", or is it a better idea to use a 16 as the smaller driver and end up with a 5.33?

What if i wanted to add a third smaller driver to make it 3 way? (not necessarily a horn).

and finally, assuming a 2 ohm stable amp, would something like this be useable with 2 eight ohm "woofer" boxes?

Let's see what the experts have to say.........

You will still end up with an 8 ohm system with one 8 ohm woofer and single 8 ohm mid and high drivers if you implement things with that in mind. Here's one of mine, a 3-way, 8 ohm nominal impedance one using three 8 ohm drivers crossed over passively:

You'll need a different crossover if you use two 8 ohm woofers, and your system will then be 4 ohms nominal if you follow standard convention.

**IvanMike** · #3 05-25-2010, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passinwind

You will still end up with an 8 ohm system with one 8 ohm woofer and single 8 ohm mid and high drivers if you implement things with that in mind. Here's one of mine, a 3-way, 8 ohm nominal impedance one using three 8 ohm drivers crossed over passively:

You'll need a different crossover if you use two 8 ohm woofers, and your system will then be 4 ohms nominal if you follow standard convention.

well good, that's even better. I would prefer to keep the impedance of the total "combined box" the same if that's possible. I was in fact talking passive crossover(s). Any driver/crossover/box dimensions are also appreciated. I suppose I'd rather make an individual midrange box for each of two 8 ohm "woofer" boxes, unless there is a reason why i should stick with one mid box for both of them.

Blues Bass 2 · #4 05-25-2010, 07:10 AM

Here's one Geenboy designed . They are best used biamped with another cabinet so you can balance the woofer with it easier .You could build a headcase with a built in three way crossover and have a jack for an eight ohm woofer built in if you want but there would be no guarantees it would balance right with the woofer .

http://www.talkbass.com/wiki/index.p...enboy_Headcase

**IvanMike** · #5 05-25-2010, 10:00 AM

thanks for that. I wonder if some sort of attenuator could be included in the "mid box" along with the passive crossover to balance the squawker with the woofer?

Passinwind · #6 05-25-2010, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IvanMike

thanks for that. I wonder if some sort of attenuator could be included in the "mid box" along with the passive crossover to balance the squawker with the woofer?

Yes, but you might want to read greenboy's take on L-Pads for mid driver attenuation the the fEarful WIKI: www.talkbass.com/wiki/index.php/Mid_padding .

**IvanMike** · #7 05-25-2010, 10:06 AM

ok so no attenuator. no problem. i'm guessing with parameters of the cabs i'm working with made available, i might be able to find an appropriate set of components to get reasonably balanced with it.

Passinwind · #8 05-25-2010, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IvanMike

ok so no attenuator. no problem. i'm guessing with parameters of the cabs i'm working with made available, i might be able to find an appropriate set of components to get reasonably balanced with it.

Just do a fixed attenuator like the fEarful designs use. I've used an L-pad to determine how much attenuation I need (and ran the cabs that way for a couple of years, actually), then eventually swapped in a high power resistor network once I had decided on which 1-15 cab to keep. You can also biamp for testing purposes if you have the extra gear floating around.

**IvanMike** · #9 05-25-2010, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passinwind

Just do a fixed attenuator like the fEarful designs use. I've used an L-pad to determine how much attenuation I need (and ran the cabs that way for a couple of years, actually), then eventually swapped in a high power resistor network once I had decided on which 1-15 cab to keep. You can also biamp for testing purposes if you have the extra gear floating around.

well that's what i figured might be the logical move. I already know what cab i'd like to "match" it to, so i have no need for a variable attenuator.

any other alternative designs to give me options would be cool.

**IvanMike** · #10 05-25-2010, 08:55 PM

anytime.........

Passinwind · #11 05-25-2010, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IvanMike

well that's what i figured might be the logical move. I already know what cab i'd like to "match" it to, so i have no need for a variable attenuator.

any other alternative designs to give me options would be cool.

Somebody posted a pic of 4 X 5 cab with Galaxy drivers, and I remember another one with an Eminence 8 in it. The physical dimensions of the top box are fairly non-critical since you will probably be using a subchamber for the mid driver anyhow.

Here's my 215/6/1 cab, which is biamped from woofers to mids, and passively crossed from mids to highs.

will33 · #12 05-25-2010, 09:21 PM

As far as using separate boxes, you would put the Lowpass section of the crossover in the woofer box with a switch to bypass the crossover if it's a situation where running fullrange through a single speaker is more than enough, like playing a 112 at a restaraunt gig or something.

And your high box you would obviously have Highpassed all the time. It would be the same as if you had everything in one box except here your high filters and high speakers are in one container and you low filter and low speaker, with the option of running fullrange, is in another container.

**IvanMike** · #13 05-26-2010, 04:33 PM

thaks for the replies so far, i was hoping more of the heavy hitters would chime in.

I don't mind building a fearful or BFM cab of other designs like passin has, but i do have existing boxes it would be fun to make a midrange box for.

Passinwind · #14 05-26-2010, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IvanMike

thaks for the replies so far, i was hoping more of the heavy hitters would chime in.

I don't mind building a fearful or BFM cab of other designs like passin has, but i do have existing boxes it would be fun to make a midrange box for.

What cabs, specifically?

I like greenboy's approach of building the top box into a standard rack case. Simple, and stacks well with many cabs.

**IvanMike** · #15 05-27-2010, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passinwind

What cabs, specifically?

I like greenboy's approach of building the top box into a standard rack case. Simple, and stacks well with many cabs.

bag end S-15, maybe bag end s-12 but those seem to have better upper mids and beam a little less, (but could be improved). I also dig the rack case idea, one less thing to fuss over. I'm not entirely sold on ultra high range extension unless the tweeter is a bit smoother than those found in commercial bass cabs. What i found to be neat ten years ago usually just sounds harsh now. perhaps it was the novelty of being able to hear all the highs.

FWIW, the cab that really knocked me out years ago was the mesa with one 15, one 10, two sixes and a bullet tweeter. A monster, but what definition. Probably more aggressive than a lot of full range cabs, but great for rock.

**IvanMike** · #16 05-28-2010, 06:57 PM

no other thoughts from the amp and cab masters? Of course making something that i could change the attenuation on to match to various cabs might be cool.

4Mal · #17 05-28-2010, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IvanMike

thaks for the replies so far, i was hoping more of the heavy hitters would chime in.

I don't mind building a fearful or BFM cab of other designs like passin has, but i do have existing boxes it would be fun to make a midrange box for.

Trust me - passinwind is a heavy hitter...

Quote:

Originally Posted by IvanMike

bag end S-15, maybe bag end s-12 but those seem to have better upper mids and beam a little less, (but could be improved).

You want more mid's than an S15 ? basically that is a mid box...

I've run my S15XD on top of a fEarful 12Sub and direct on it sounded pretty dang good. Of course the 15 beams like Scotty so dispersion is out the window.

rptrsn2 · #18 05-28-2010, 09:45 PM

i've had the same thoughts, i have a old peavey 115tvx. i wondered how this would work using the drivers and crossover of a fearful 15/6? @ passinwind, would this be a worthwhile project?

**IvanMike** · #19 05-29-2010, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Mal

Trust me - passinwind is a heavy hitter...

You want more mid's than an S15 ? basically that is a mid box...

I've run my S15XD on top of a fEarful 12Sub and direct on it sounded pretty dang good. Of course the 15 beams like Scotty so dispersion is out the window.

oh i know passinwind is in the club, i always like it when i get a bunch of them together and they fight............

I don't really want more mids, just better dispersion. not a critical thing, just seeing what options were out there.

4Mal · #20 05-31-2010, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IvanMike

oh i know passinwind is in the club, i always like it when i get a bunch of them together and they fight............

OK - that's funny

I don't really want more mids, just better dispersion. not a critical thing, just seeing what options were out there.

I think the squirrel is in another tree... I would just revel in the Bag Ended'ness... and plan on a fEarful build. I was pretty close to bliss with my old S15/S15X stack - until I got a whiff of Charlie's 12.6... pretty much nothing else will do now. At least nothing else I can afford

I would love to get up close and personal with a Tri-115 and all that separates me from that experience is a spare K buck and a job ...