Mini 0r Micro Amps.... I Must Be Missing Something?

[Shardik]

Originally Posted by seamonkey

I said "charts" and "measurements" plural

Yes, but I have never seen a tech spec telling the whole truth, even with multitudes of charts and measurements. It's a case of "the more you know, the more unanswered questions you have".

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Shardik

Yes, but I have never seen a tech spec telling the whole truth, even with multitudes of charts and measurements. It's a case of "the more you know, the more unanswered questions you have".

I also agree with that, especially when talking about a system designed to amplify a signal source (bass guitar) that is variable and impossible to really measure in-and-of itself (i.e., what is the sound of an electric bass prior to plugging it into something. Put another way, a tone generator input or whatever is going to be quite different from the massive dynamic range, peaks, etc. of an electric bass played by a bass player.

Kind of a different topic, but it all seems to work together to me.

[dincz]

Originally Posted by KJung

Put another way, a tone generator input or whatever is going to be quite different from the massive dynamic range, peaks, etc. of an electric bass played by a bass player.

It's standard practice to use test equipment to simulate actual operating conditions of equipment. Can you imagine a broadcasting network choosing new transmitters by testing them only with a microphone?

[jnewmark]

Originally Posted by dincz

It's standard practice to use test equipment to simulate actual operating conditions of equipment. Can you imagine a broadcasting network choosing new transmitters by testing them only with a microphone?

Just curious here. What type of " test equipment " can simulate a packed nightclub, with 300 drunk, screaming patrons, a dozen or more TV screens on max volume, with any number of different instruments all trying to be heard, in a lab ?

[dincz]

Originally Posted by jnewmark

Just curious here. What type of " test equipment " can simulate a packed nightclub, with 300 drunk, screaming patrons, a dozen or more TV screens on max volume, with any number of different instruments all trying to be heard, in a lab ?

You're talking about the operating environment. I'm talking about operating conditions.

[StrangerDanger]

Well I'm off micros for good now. Im going all tube and not looking back. Convenience has been relegated to 7-11 and Domino's for me again. Tube tone = bliss.

[jnewmark]

Originally Posted by dincz

You're talking about the operating environment. I'm talking about operating conditions.

Well then, what are the operating conditions then ? I can't help but think that some of the " operating environment " can effect the " operating conditions " like, faulty wiring, RF noise from neon lights, humidity, etc. What exactly is simulated in the lab and how does that relate to the actual usage of the amp out in the real world ?

[dmusic148]

Originally Posted by jnewmark

Well then, what are the operating conditions then ? I can't help but think that some of the " operating environment " can effect the " operating conditions " like, faulty wiring, RF noise from neon lights, humidity, etc. What exactly is simulated in the lab and how does that relate to the actual usage of the amp out in the real world ?

I'd think it's fair to say that 'faulty' wiring can't really be included in a test environment. It's, well, faulty. To make an amp work with 'faulty' wiring would render it useless with correct wiring.
RF noise is probably simulated in a good test. Harley does it with their bikes. Although any amp with a metal case should be relatively, if not completely immune to it anyway.
Humidity?

[jnewmark]

Originally Posted by dmusic148

I'd think it's fair to say that 'faulty' wiring can't really be included in a test environment. It's, well, faulty. To make an amp work with 'faulty' wiring would render it useless with correct wiring.
RF noise is probably simulated in a good test. Harley does it with their bikes. Although any amp with a metal case should be relatively, if not completely immune to it anyway.
Humidity?

Ok, as far as humidity, I meant alot of moisture in and around the amp. Still don't get what the " operating conditions " are in the lab.

[dmusic148]

Originally Posted by jnewmark

Ok, as far as humidity, I meant alot of moisture in and around the amp. Still don't get what the " operating conditions " are in the lab.

Hard to say. I'm sure every brand has their own test criteria.

[agedhorse]

Originally Posted by dmusic148

I'd think it's fair to say that 'faulty' wiring can't really be included in a test environment. It's, well, faulty. To make an amp work with 'faulty' wiring would render it useless with correct wiring.
RF noise is probably simulated in a good test. Harley does it with their bikes. Although any amp with a metal case should be relatively, if not completely immune to it anyway.
Humidity?

Faulty wiring (say no safety ground present) is generally covered for safety purposes under the catagory of insulation barrier strength and HiPot, not for performance purposes because that's something that should be repaired rather than accepted. The critical issue is for the player to be protected from electrocution.

RF noise is definately covered under the EMI/RFI radiated and conducted emissions tests, it's part of the withstand requirements.

Specifically, (speaking only for our products) we do extensive thermal testing, mechanical analysis, noise, humidity (which is even more extensively covered under the development and secondary testing of the SMPS and class D amplifier), and shipping/packaging. There are also a variety of load profiles that are used along with different duty cycle signal profiles... THEN, it's tested in gigging envirionments, with some very good players.

[Mastermold]

Originally Posted by agedhorse

Faulty wiring (say no safety ground present) is generally covered for safety purposes under the catagory of insulation barrier strength and HiPot, not for performance purposes because that's something that should be repaired rather than accepted. The critical issue is for the player to be protected from electrocution.

RF noise is definately covered under the EMI/RFI radiated and conducted emissions tests, it's part of the withstand requirements.

Specifically, (speaking only for our products) we do extensive thermal testing, mechanical analysis, noise, humidity (which is even more extensively covered under the development and secondary testing of the SMPS and class D amplifier), and shipping/packaging. There are also a variety of load profiles that are used along with different duty cycle signal profiles... THEN, it's tested in gigging envirionments, with some very good players.

So is it safe for me to gig my SL 900 while barefoot in the rain?

(Depending on how much I've had to drink I suppose? )

[silky smoove]

My Streamliner 900 will be playing 3 different sets over the next two nights, and a studio session the following day. Barring unforeseen circumstances, it will perform wonderfully, and sound equally wonderful as it always has...

Nothing to add to this thread outside of my love for my STL900.

[alaskaleftybass]

Since we're on page 15, thought I'd reiterate the subject of the thread:

Mini 0r Micro Amps.... I Must Be Missing Something?


I'm ready to make the micro amp leap. LOL Seems like most of the guys who are like me are complaining about their backs lol..... but wow think of all that power in the pouch pocket of your bass guitar gig bag, then in your other hand, a 12" ultralight cab... at the end of the gig you're the first one gone... :-)

The other one that intrigues me is the Ampege Portaflex, with the flip top that stores in the cabinet, only $549 with the PF350 and 115.... the only drawback I've heard is that because it's sealed it doesn't have much botom end... and I like thump....

[IntrepidCellist]

Originally Posted by alaskaleftybass

Since we're on page 15, thought I'd reiterate the subject of the thread:

Mini 0r Micro Amps.... I Must Be Missing Something?


I'm ready to make the micro amp leap. LOL Seems like most of the guys who are like me are complaining about their backs lol..... but wow think of all that power in the pouch pocket of your bass amp, then in your other hand, a 12" ultralight cab... at the end of the gig you're the first one gone... :-)

As I've probably mentioned before in this thread, I haven't lost anything tonally from going from a WT400/D210XLT/D212XLT stack (over 130 lbs of rig) to a Aguilar TH500 and an Audiokinesis Thunderchild 1x12. In fact, I think it sounds better.

I did lose a little maximum volume, but I can carry a small bar easily, and anything bigger will have PA. Being able to tear down and walk out with 40 lbs on a dolly is just awesome, especially in NYC.

[agedhorse]

Originally Posted by silky smoove

My Streamliner 900 will be playing 3 different sets over the next two nights, and a studio session the following day. Barring unforeseen circumstances, it will perform wonderfully, and sound equally wonderful as it always has...

Nothing to add to this thread outside of my love for my STL900.

Barefoot... in the rain???

[seamonkey]

Originally Posted by Shardik

Yes, but I have never seen a tech spec telling the whole truth, even with multitudes of charts and measurements. It's a case of "the more you know, the more unanswered questions you have".

Oh Please - "whole truth"? like noise from meteor storm interference crackling through your amp.

Most amp specs are well beyond human hearing. Pro audio power amps are nearly identical in sound. So much so that I don't think anybody can tell.

Measurements please. FTC, EIA standards. Just within human hearing range.