The Missing Fundamental Test

[Alexander Eddy]

Originally Posted by Joe Louvar

So now what Alexander Eddy - say the OP never agrees with you, then what?

If I get a consensus here that I am correct (after people listen to the clips uploaded) I will rest at that. I will still argue, but at least I can do it simply by linking to this thread (if it is successful), and stepping away.

As I said, I will happily be proven wrong, although it does not look like I will at this stage.

[Ric5]

I go to the link and I get Malicious web site blicked.

[Alexander Eddy]

Originally Posted by Ric5

I go to the link and I get Malicious web site blicked.

That would be due to the banners on the site saying "download now" etc. If you unblock it and look for the text "Click here to start download from sendspace" with a blue background, you'll be safe. Such are the costs of free hosting.

[Joe Louvar]

Originally Posted by Alexander Eddy

If I get a consensus here that I am correct (after people listen to the clips uploaded) I will rest at that. I will still argue, but at least I can do it simply by linking to this thread (if it is successful), and stepping away.

As I said, I will happily be proven wrong, although it does not look like I will at this stage.

I thought BFM answered you question in post #2 - but ok, good luck and thank you.

[Joe Louvar]

Originally Posted by Ric5

I go to the link and I get Malicious web site blicked.

Wow, that's not good - thank you for the heads up.

[superjesus]

Alexander,

Your test looks really interesting. I wish I had equipment up to the task. I'd love to participate.

[OtisRocks]

Originally Posted by JimWasHere

So, there's a couple freeware tone generators out there. I'ma suggest that your friend downloads one and then takes a sine wave at 17.32hz and puts it to his rig, and sees what it sounds like with only the fundamental, no harmonics.

It might be tough to find a rig that can operate at the required sound pressure levels without generating so much harmonic distortion that you "hear" the 17 Hz tone anyway.

[greenboy]

Yep. Really doesn't matter if even a subwoofer-oriented cab can do 17 Hz or not. Input a 17 Hz sine and via harmonic distortion sourced by the driver itself, you will begin to hear multiples of 17: 34 Hz, 51 Hz, 68 Hz, etc. Such harmonic signals will dominate the acoustic output until you climb up into the range the enclosure and driver are actually capable of reproducing loud enough to overcome equal loudness contour realities. Or you will have blown the driver from raising the 17 Hz signal level too much ; }

Maybe it's time for a refresher of this and other LF realities in Bass frequency/waterfall plots: what they mean to rigs - covers the gamut, or nearly so.

[Alexander Eddy]

Originally Posted by Joe Louvar

I thought BFM answered you question in post #2 - but ok, good luck and thank you.

He did, and I take his word as gospel when it comes to such things.

If another 10/50/100 people agree with him or can't discern or fail the tests, it is no longer the viewpoint of one or two people (that is far from satisfactory in the other persons view), it becomes a consensus, which is what I am trying to establish.

Why? So in the future, instead of needlessly arguing, I can just link to a thread that shows the/this? consensus.

[Alexander Eddy]

Originally Posted by superjesus

Alexander,

Your test looks really interesting. I wish I had equipment up to the task. I'd love to participate.

All you need is headphones!

[JimWasHere]

Originally Posted by greenboy

Or you will have blown the driver from raising the 17 Hz signal level too much ; }

I definitely just heard a little bit of xlim in a black widow

[Joe Louvar]

Sorry OP for the quick off topic message to greenboy.

greenboy, I tried to send you a private TB message but couldn’t - I’m really looking forward to hearing, reading, learning more about your new fEARful 215 - hint, hint, please. Thank you.

[tekdiver500ft]

The normal human ear quits at about 20 Hz. However, there are documented cases of people who can differentiate pitches down to 12 Hz, so it is possible that your counterpart can hear the difference. Most amps don't reproduce tones below 20 Hz at a usable volume, and I'm not aware of any bass cabs that will, either. So, he may be able to hear the difference, but nobody else will, and nobody will care.

[seanm]

For the low B samples clip 1 sounded less full than the other two. As if something was missing.

I couldn't tell the difference between clips 2 and 3

Really looking forward to seeing what the answers are. And any chance of doing the same thing with a low E? I am more of a four string guy

[Joe Louvar]

Originally Posted by Alexander Eddy

He did, and I take his word as gospel when it comes to such things.

If another 10/50/100 people agree with him or can't discern or fail the tests, it is no longer the viewpoint of one or two people (that is far from satisfactory in the other persons view), it becomes a consensus, which is what I am trying to establish.

Why? So in the future, instead of needlessly arguing, I can just link to a thread that shows the/this? consensus.

Ok - and checkout greenboy’s link too.

[Alexander Eddy]

Originally Posted by seanm

For the low B samples clip 1 sounded less full than the other two. As if something was missing.

I couldn't tell the difference between clips 2 and 3

Really looking forward to seeing what the answers are. And any chance of doing the same thing with a low E? I am more of a four string guy

Ask and thou shalt receive

Open E with 8 harmonics, and then Just the 8 harmonics.
This should be easier to predict.

[Joe Louvar]

Originally Posted by tekdiver500ft

The normal human ear quits at about 20 Hz. However, there are documented cases of people who can differentiate pitches down to 12 Hz, so it is possible that your counterpart can hear the difference. Most amps don't reproduce tones below 20 Hz at a usable volume, and I'm not aware of any bass cabs that will, either. So, he may be able to hear the difference, but nobody else will, and nobody will care.

+1, and if I heard it - I'd roll it off.

[will33]

Originally Posted by tekdiver500ft

The normal human ear quits at about 20 Hz. However, there are documented cases of people who can differentiate pitches down to 12 Hz, so it is possible that your counterpart can hear the difference. Most amps don't reproduce tones below 20 Hz at a usable volume, and I'm not aware of any bass cabs that will, either. So, he may be able to hear the difference, but nobody else will, and nobody will care.

Hearing below 20 may be doable in some rare cases, but even so, if this guy thinks he can hear it, he is not hearing it from any bass rig, or FOH sound system, or anything else except maybe the subwoofer under his couch. It's psychoacoustics all the way.


OP, my earbuds aren't good enough to be of any use for this, but I will take a listen later and post my thoughts to add to your data.

[Joe Louvar]

And yet there is the Earthworks M50 microphone, 4 Hz to 40 kHz ±1 dB, to 50 kHz +1/-3db.

[WingKL]

Not that I don't agree with the OP but it seems all those artificially generated waveforms would not prove the point as well as directly recorded actual bass guitar notes with the fundamentals and 2nd harmonics then filtered out digitally. Then anyone could run that through their rig to see if they can hear the difference. They should also be encouraged to put it though a spectrum analyzer to prove to themselves whether what they think is there really is.

In any case most consumer audio equipment will not reproduce a 17hz signal anyway as it will probably be filtered out by design, if not by undersized coupling capacitors.

For all I know, these warbly noises could be an experiment in subliminal messaging/mind control/brain damage with sound. :>