mixing hifi with vintage tubes

ngh · #1 03-04-2013, 10:05 PM

who here runs a rig with a vintage style tube amp (or similarly voiced SS) paired with a hifi cab. to what effect do you use this rig?

this is mostly just a curiosity. I have been on the hunt for a new cab to pair my sunn 2000s with. I have been spending most of my time looking for something along the lines of a matching sunn 2000s cab. but I have come accross a few hifi style cabs on the cheap (bag end QTENBX-D for $400 is one i just spied

) and thought it would be interesting to see if any of you guys use the vintage tube amp hifi cab combo to get your tone.

cheers!

JimmyM · #2 03-04-2013, 10:13 PM

I don't usually but I have before. A good amp + a good cab always = good sound, although "good" is very much in the eyes of the beholder.

lowphatbass · #3 03-05-2013, 01:38 AM

I've used my 200s with some different cabs, an old Euphonic Audio VL208 is probably the most "hi-fi". It's a good sound for sure, you get out exactly what you put in so it can be a bit hairy. That being said I like the stock 2x15 box, the JBL's are plenty bright. It's probably less of an issue with the big 2000s, but in terms of volume, my little 200s really benefits from a big cab.

spacebassed · #4 03-05-2013, 02:52 AM

I used to run my old Fenders (Dual Showman and Bassman) through modern cabs all the time. Really, all you're going to get is more clarity, but, as noted, those JBL loaded cabs are already pretty hi-fi for vintage cabinets. I don't like tweeters, but that's just a personal preference. If I were you I'd look for one of the matching Sunn cabs w/ JBL's, which were, IMO, the best vintage bass cabs made, but you won't have any problems using a modern cab either. Greenboy's Dually 2x15" would be a great match for an old tube head.

ngh · #5 03-05-2013, 02:56 AM

I am indeed looking for a 2000s or 200s jbl loaded cab, unfortunately finding one is proving pretty difficult. So I have started to at least consider other options

christw · #6 03-05-2013, 05:11 AM

I used one of those Bag End 410's with my SVT-CL, V4BH, Elk Custom 30, B-15, JTM-60, and any other tube amp I had on hand. It was excellent. I'm a big proponent of what you consider to be a vintage tube amp on a hifi cab

edbass · #7 03-05-2013, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ngh

I am indeed looking for a 2000s or 200s jbl loaded cab, unfortunately finding one is proving pretty difficult. So I have started to at least consider other options

Interestingly enough, as I mentioned in your last thread in the 2000S era you couldn't get an amp without at least one cab.
So based on the number of orphan Sundholm era Sunn heads I see posted about, I suppose somewhere there is a stockpile of 2000S and 200S cabs; my guess is that the D140F's got toasted somewhere along the way and they were abandoned, trashed, used for kindling, etc.

Some members of the Sunn Discussion Page have built their own 2000S/200S cabs using Conrad Sundholm's plans. If you go there seach for DIY cabs.

TB member D.M.N. has a sweet K140 loaded 2000S clone he built using Conrad's plans, I think he built it a couple of years ago.

Mr. Foxen · #8 03-05-2013, 08:01 AM

If by hifi cab you mean the multi driver jobs with a crossover, there is potential disagreement with valve amps when they have an uneven impedance due to the crossover, this isn't an issue with SS amps which the cab is probably aimed at. It might not be an audible issue as much as the transparency taking the resulting sound out of the traditional territory user of valve amps tend to expect. I think if it is a design goal, a multi driver cab can be made to agree with valve amps in terms of impedance, just it probably isn't a common goal. I think the impedance issue is the cause ofwhat is usually blamed on 'damping factor', which I think hasn't been an issue since speakers are mostly self damping.

pgk · #9 03-05-2013, 08:11 AM

an 8 ohm dual showman (80watts) with a pair of bag end s15d-L cabs (i consider them a hi-fi high efficiency cab) is all the rig i'd ever need for any stage. hell, my single s15d-L with my showman-esque tube fender head is enough for 90% of my gigs, and i play in some pretty loud bands. a pair of those cabs with a sunn 2000s or an ampeg v4b would flat out kill and blow minds. modern style and Efficient cabs paired with an old style tube head is a great match

edbass · #10 03-05-2013, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Foxen

If by hifi cab you mean the multi driver jobs with a crossover, there is potential disagreement with valve amps when they have an uneven impedance due to the crossover, this isn't an issue with SS amps which the cab is probably aimed at. It might not be an audible issue as much as the transparency taking the resulting sound out of the traditional territory user of valve amps tend to expect. I think if it is a design goal, a multi driver cab can be made to agree with valve amps in terms of impedance, just it probably isn't a common goal. I think the impedance issue is the cause ofwhat is usually blamed on 'damping factor', which I think hasn't been an issue since speakers are mostly self damping.

There are issues with a passive xovers other than impedance, such as the damping factor you mention; which particularly in cabs used for bass instruments can be an issue.
If a "big league" bass rig even has tweeters, you rarely see anything other than a simple L pad on a piezo or compression driver, and as I said probably most often no passive xover network at all, and/or turned off in use.

Passive xovers are a real practical convenience, and certainly have their applications, but IMO bass guitar cabs isn't one of them.

ngh · #11 03-06-2013, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edbass

Passive xovers are a real practical convenience, and certainly have their applications, but IMO bass guitar cabs isn't one of them.

what exactly is it that makes passive crossovers a bad idea on a bass cab in your eyes/ears? i mean to say what exactly is it one stands to lose by using them. tone wise, efficiency wise etc.

Jim C · #12 03-06-2013, 02:15 PM

I use my SVT all the time with a Berg HT322 and love the tone

edbass · #13 03-07-2013, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ngh

what exactly is it that makes passive crossovers a bad idea on a bass cab in your eyes/ears? i mean to say what exactly is it one stands to lose by using them. tone wise, efficiency wise etc.

I thought I did.

Quote:

Originally Posted by edbass

There are issues with a passive xovers other than impedance, such as the damping factor you mention; which particularly in cabs used for bass instruments can be an issue.

I don't feel inclined to elaborate, that's a subject for a different forum.
There is a plethora of info on the web in dedicated forums about the limitations and compromises of passive xover networks; draw your own conclusions about their "practicality vs. marketing" merits for bass guitar cab usage.

Mr. Foxen · #14 03-07-2013, 07:07 AM

All I've found regarding issues with passive crossovers, is that cheap nasty ones suck, good well designed ones are great, but also expensive.

jungleheat · #15 03-08-2013, 10:39 PM

Some friends have a Fender/Sunn Bassman 300T (or whatever the model is). When they don't want to drag out the matching 8x10, they use it with an SWR GIII. Sounds great and plenty loud enough definitely. The SWR can theoretically handle 2+ times the power that the Fender puts out, so they're paired pretty well. The SWR has a dial on the back so you can get just the right amount of "bite".

jellymax · #16 03-09-2013, 08:57 PM

i run an accugroove whappo jr with an SVTIINP. perfectly fabulusly uh.... well
its an awesome matchup! been 6 years with this awesome rig.

Quackhead · #17 03-09-2013, 09:27 PM

The Q10BX-D is a monster of a cabinet. Loud as hell and super articulate but I think it's pretty warm as far as "hi-fi" cabinets go. The coaxial speaker is really mellow. The only downside is that it is big and heavy.

And $400 is a pretty good deal if it's in nice shape. That's a low price but not a steal.