Modern amp with 'heavier solid state amp' power and punch

Musicman20 · #1 11-12-2010, 07:07 AM

I sometimes do miss my pre-Gibson Trace Elliot GP12400SMX.

I dont miss the weight, but the power was immense.

Are there any micro/small amps that have the 'ompph' of the bigger solid state amps?

I dont just mean in terms of volume, I mean the sheer low end push.

Obviously everyone has different tone goals, but Im just wondering.

So far, I love my small/modern amps, but id like to know your opinions, and whether im just being plan daft!

80'sRocker · #2 11-12-2010, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Musicman20

I sometimes do miss my pre-Gibson Trace Elliot GP12400SMX.

I dont miss the weight, but the power was immense.

Are there any micro/small amps that have the 'ompph' of the bigger solid state amps?

I dont just mean in terms of volume, I mean the sheer low end push.

Obviously everyone has different tone goals, but Im just wondering.

So far, I love my small/modern amps, but id like to know your opinions, and whether im just being plan daft!

That would be Pre Peavey, not Gibson. The last I knew Peavey owned Trace Elliot

Bassdirty · #3 11-12-2010, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 80'sRocker

That would be Pre Peavey, not Gibson. The last I knew Peavey owned Trace Elliot

+1

tombowlus · #4 11-12-2010, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 80'sRocker

That would be Pre Peavey, not Gibson. The last I knew Peavey owned Trace Elliot

Gibson did own Trace at one point, though Peavey owns them now.

Musicman20 · #5 11-12-2010, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tombowlus

Gibson did own Trace at one point, though Peavey owns them now.

Yep, Tom's got it.

Trace was owned, quite bizzarely, by Gibson for a little while.

We are talking an early 1995-97 model roughly I think.

Wiki

"Kaman downsized their music division in 1997 and sold the company to a trio of Trace Elliot directors, who took ownership of a brand with nearly 200 staff on a 110,000-square-foot (10,000 m2) site; they focused on exploiting the North American market, and in 1998 sold the company to the Gibson Guitar Corporation.[2]

However, in January 2002, the factory was closed and all staff were made redundant. Gibson then moved the production of a few particular products they wanted to continue with to various locations in the United States.

In April 2005 it was announced that Peavey Electronics had acquired the brand name and were involving several key staff who had worked for Trace Elliot throughout the previous twenty years. The brand kept its Essex roots but set up a design office/workshop in Chelmsford.[3]"

tombowlus · #6 11-12-2010, 07:53 AM

Oh, and as far as that "can I get that girth/push" out of a modern micro head, that is of course its own can of worms. You have the camp that says that on paper, class-D & SMPS is just as capable as class-AB/G/H/whatever and a conventional power supply, and that "watts are watts." If you are measuring "steady state" output power, I think that this by and large holds true for fairly rated amps of any topology. When it comes to dynamic and "burst" power, though, on some of our tests, class-D/SMPS amps do seem to perform differently from their more conventional counterparts. I don't want to spill any beans prematurely, though, as we do plan on featuring this topic in one or more upcoming issues.

I do think that there are some remarkably competent micro heads on the market, and I have personally had some very positive gig experiences using a number of them. That being said, at least under certain circumstances, I do believe that I can hear/feel differences between the micros and the lead sleds. And of course, once you factor power tubes into the equation, you bring a whole new, jumbo-sized can of worms to the table.

Tom.

Morning Beer · #7 11-12-2010, 07:57 AM

Ive owned 3 micros. The only one that stayed and let me sell my M9 was the GK MB Fusion. All the others were just missing that "umph" I got from a class A/B, the fusion had it all.

Musicman20 · #8 11-12-2010, 08:05 AM

I have quite an interest in getting a high powered middle weight amp that I can rack...I did think about the GK gear, but then again I hear a lot about their micros being great!

The other option is Shuttle 9.0, but Ive heard reviews say its about on par with the RH450 volume wise.

Son of Bovril · #9 11-12-2010, 08:08 AM

there is still a debate as to whether or not there is a discernable difference between the sound from the different types of amps, but if there is, is it enough that it would be noticeable at a live gig?

tombowlus · #10 11-12-2010, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morning Beer

Ive owned 3 micros. The only one that stayed and let me sell my M9 was the GK MB Fusion. All the others were just missing that "umph" I got from a class A/B, the fusion had it all.

The MB Fusion, and MB500, are certainly very impressive.

Fretless5verfan · #11 11-12-2010, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Son of Bovril

there is still a debate as to whether or not there is a discernable difference between the sound from the different types of amps, but if there is, is it enough that it would be noticeable at a live gig?

To the bassist? I bet. To the audience? Hmm...

Son of Bovril · #12 11-12-2010, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fretless5verfan

To the bassist? I bet. To the audience? Hmm...

Fair enough, and if the player can notice it, that is enough to affect his performance I guess...

Matt Dean · #13 11-12-2010, 09:41 AM

Mesa M6/9 Carbine?

BassmanPaul · #14 11-12-2010, 09:47 AM

These sorts of questions arise every time some new innovation comes along. With speakers we had AlNiCo verses Ceramic magnets. That's back again now that Neo magnets have made their appearance. Same deal for full tube, hybrids and SS. Analogue or digital. Then we had Class A against Class AB or H. With Class D up comes the debate again.

As with everything, it's the player that has to decide what suits his goals. If a Class AB "lead sled" produces tonal nirvana then use them. If it's Class AB with a switch mode power supply then the same applies.

For me a Carvin BX1500 Class D amp "feels" exactly the dame as my tube pre into several different SS power amps. The only difference is when I pick the amp up. Mine will stay!

Nedmundo · #15 11-12-2010, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tombowlus

When it comes to dynamic and "burst" power, though, on some of our tests, class-D/SMPS amps do seem to perform differently from their more conventional counterparts. I don't want to spill any beans prematurely, though, as we do plan on featuring this topic in one or more upcoming issues.

That's interesting to me because of my experience with a G-K MB-500 I bought a few months ago. When I first used it with the band, it seemed to be "bursting" more than the usual amp (a Hartke head), i.e., responding more dramatically to heavy playing to produce a less linear response to input, and perhaps a wider dynamic range. I was surprised, and I've never noticed this with my G-K 700RB-II. I'm not sure if this is what you're referring to, or whether I'm even hearing/feeling it accurately but, regardless, it didn't bother me and I think it's an excellent head.

mrpackerguy · #16 11-12-2010, 10:32 AM

While I love the micros (currently have an F500, Shuttle 9.0 and EA Micro) IMHO they do not have the depth of even the hybrid power amps. In particular, I'm comparing my Mesa Mpulse600. I'm convinced it's the switching technology. The micros are more than sufficient for me to be gig worthy, but on close to home gigs, I like to break out the mpulse600.

tombowlus · #17 11-12-2010, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Dean

Mesa M6/9 Carbine?

Those are killer, killer heads, but of course, they are class-AB, conventional lead sleds.

tombowlus · #18 11-12-2010, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nedmundo

That's interesting to me because of my experience with a G-K MB-500 I bought a few months ago. When I first used it with the band, it seemed to be "bursting" more than the usual amp (a Hartke head), i.e., responding more dramatically to heavy playing to produce a less linear response to input, and perhaps a wider dynamic range. I was surprised, and I've never noticed this with my G-K 700RB-II. I'm not sure if this is what you're referring to, or whether I'm even hearing/feeling it accurately but, regardless, it didn't bother me and I think it's an excellent head.

Actually, the GK micro heads are a bit of an exception to the rule, as they seem to do a better job with burst/dynamic power and recovery time than some of the other micros.

dhomer · #19 11-12-2010, 11:33 AM

The person who successfully develops a 1000 watt all-tube amp that can reproduce DC to radio frequences @ 130dB, weigh 6 ounces and can fit in the trunk of a smart car will become a gazillionaire. Unfortunately we live in the real world, and it has been continually proved any attempt at going lightweight will be fraught w/sonic compromises.. IMO, a lot of folks here are searching for impossible... To me tone is EVERYTHING, and I proudly own a pickup truck and a 2-wheel dolly to accomodate it.. End of story..

jowens004 · #20 11-12-2010, 06:06 PM

The M6/M9 may be conventional Lead Sled as Tom points out, but they are a FAR CRY from the weight of a Trace Elliot of days gone by. Having played Trace exclusively for many many years, I have also been in search of a modern replacement. So A few years ago I set out on a voyage of discovery, playing every amp I could get my hands on, you name it, ive played some model of it. For my opinion of the Micro Class D stuff, well if I HAD to go that route, then it would be GK. Still doesnt float my boat though. The ONLY thing I have found that even gives me a musical Hard On like my old Trace rig, Without the associated Hernia, is the M6 or M9. pound for pound I think it holds up very nicely in comparison. It has all the volume anyone could want, and with the M9 all the tonal possibilities I'm looking for. Best part is its less than 30lbs. Even my old broken down back can haul that around. Of course, I let my son tote the cabinets in for me.
Just my 2cents worth.