More Amp Dilemmas

[devilock76]

OK the basic question, will an SWR super redhead with a high quality 2x10 extension cab be able to compete with two loud guitarists with 100 watt mesa heads?

Ok let me begin with the details. My current rig consists of a bbe bmax and a crown ce2000. I run that stereo into an avatar b212 neo (2x12 4 ohm 500 watts rms) and a warwick wca 211 (2x10 8 ohm 300 watts rms). The Warwick cab was a recent purchase and I freaking love it. It has made me say to heck with it, I want to get rid of the avatar. I just like the sound of that warwick so much.

So the other day I am in guitar center, poking around, played a carvin r1000, not that impressed with it, might give it another honest try with my own stuff and not the so so ampeg cab it was hooked up to. Then I took a stab at a pre-fender super redhead they had in there used. Holy tone batman! Seriously I absolutely loved the sound and punch of it, and it seemed PLENTY loud but of course get in the room with the dynamically deaf duo and things might be different. I was figuring I would put my BBE Bmax in the open space on the swr, that way I get a compressor in the loop to help clean up the spikes and run the Warwick as the extra cab for it. I mean I guess I could combine it with the 2x12 avatar, and I will be sure to try that combo... (the manual says it can handle a 4 ohm external cabinet but recommends an 8 ohm, and that is what I think will be better).

Anyway the thing is this. I play in two bands and on occasion do some session work. One of the bands is loud, and I mean loud progressive metal. I figure I am 33 so this is just about one of the last "metal" bands I will do, but it is good stuff, just really, REALLY freaking loud. But I also play other gigs and I like something modular where I don't need to go nuts, and a good tone and punch in a reliable package is important. Part of me was thinking to work the ultra light angle and get another warwick cab with a shuttle 6.0 and run that as a verticle 4x10 setup. The GC in question also has a couple other amps/heads there that I have gazed at and interest me.

They got a couple of Little Mark II's, a Mark bass SD800, a SWR SM500, a b2re or two, and a bassman 800 (with major damage to the rear panel where the plug is, I can't believe they are trying to get $500 for it like that). Anyway I am planning a trip with a bunch of my gear to try out a bunch of stuff there. The SWR though is my top choice, I just have concerns about it being able to make volume.

Ken

[i_got_a_mohawk]

I think you might be struggling.

[devilock76]

Originally Posted by i_got_a_mohawk

I think you might be struggling.

There is a point where maybe I should just give up on it if it takes a 2000 watt power amp to keep up.

Oh and yes I wear ear plugs at practice, all the time in fact. And to top that off, well sometimes after practice, even with ear plugs in the whole time, I can hear a touch of extra ringing.

And I got these nice military spec rubber earplug things, sweet jesus.

Ken

[Munjibunga]

You need a kilowatt, minimum. Probably a couple 410s, too.

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Originally Posted by devilock76

There is a point where maybe I should just give up on it if it takes a 2000 watt power amp to keep up.

Oh and yes I wear ear plugs at practice, all the time in fact. And to top that off, well sometimes after practice, even with ear plugs in the whole time, I can hear a touch of extra ringing.

And I got these nice military spec rubber earplug things, sweet jesus.

Ken

If you are using that type of plug, surely you can't even hear yourselves very well? Why not just get them to turn down a bit and enjoy the metal at more reasonable levels

[devilock76]

Originally Posted by i_got_a_mohawk

If you are using that type of plug, surely you can't even hear yourselves very well? Why not just get them to turn down a bit and enjoy the metal at more reasonable levels

Well it hasn't worked so far.

I am at the point where I feel like I am sacrificing tone and flexibility for volume in my rig selection and it is starting to be an unacceptable compromise for me.

Part of me debates just grabbing what I like sound and packing wise and if they are blasting over me say, well if you want to hear me turn the F down.

Ken

[rbonner]

I'm not going to recommend my Darth Vader helmet, as that is sort of a tradmark like thing. But maybe a nicely restored brass Mark IV diving helmet. It will control the sound well... Especially Heavy metal. You just play with the door thingy in front... Lets the cigarette smoke out too.

You talk about AMPEG cabinets not doing it. You need to stop playing with the B115 cabs GC stocks and ask them where their new SVT-810e cab is. Plug on an SVT-vr and light that sucker up. You'll have enough power; you'll be able to close the door on the Mark IV and everybody will hear you.

For the smaller gigs, turn the volume down and open the little door. All High tech.

BOB

[devilock76]

Originally Posted by rbonner

I'm not going to recommend my Darth Vader helmet, as that is sort of a tradmark like thing. But maybe a nicely restored brass Mark IV diving helmet. It will control the sound well... Especially Heavy metal. You just play with the door thingy in front... Lets the cigarette smoke out too.

You talk about AMPEG cabinets not doing it. You need to stop playing with the B115 cabs GC stocks and ask them where their new SVT-810e cab is. Plug on an SVT-vr and light that sucker up. You'll have enough power; you'll be able to close the door on the Mark IV and everybody will hear you.

For the smaller gigs, turn the volume down and open the little door. All High tech.

BOB

My ampeg comment was more to the point I have never been as up on the ampeg tone, now granted I am not saying it is a bad sound, but not my tops. I am not sure I know what my tops is. That SWR sure comes darn close.

I guess I am weird like that, for example I don't like Warwick basses but I like their cabs.

In some ways I am re-evaluating a lot of things I do on bass and my tastes are changing.

And of course there is the problem of I do not have unlimited resources, nor do I want to be lugging a 200 lb rig around all the time.

I can tell you this, I do not want to lug an 8x10 cabinet around all the time.

The funny thing is we practice at the drummers studio space which is an outbuilding from his house, his wife, in the house mostly hears the bass, in the room, it is mostly the guitars.

End is it is not just volume, I think there is some tone suck/tone fight going on.

I am still going to test out that SWR Super Redhead with a couple of extension cabs. I really like the sound of it. As for getting it loud enough. I guess I will see what happens in trying it with the extension cabs I bring.

Ken