My .5 Aligned Sealed 610 Build - Page 2

basscooker · #21 12-23-2012, 01:34 AM

looks awesome. i agree the diy threads are some of the best ones to view.

just one thing to add, to the OP and everyone who does hobby building of any kind, check out www.boltdepot.com sometime. they take paypal just like parts express and speaker hardware do, and they sell by the each, too. get 10,000 pcs or 1. your choice. they carry nylon spacers that work well as grill stand-offs, and for those forever on the quest for light weight, those alone could save 6-8 ounces over using rubber feet for that.

also, check for a local metal shop that can get 4x8 sheets of the grill metal you like. i bought a sheet of 16 ga flat rolled expanded steel, had it cut to all of my awaiting projects' sizes, and shipped to me (with all scraps) for under 200 bucks. the two big scraps are each larger than i'll need when i build my fearfuls (but that's another story...). let's face it we're never going to stop building s*** so might as well buy crap in bulk, right?

5StringPocket · #22 12-23-2012, 02:01 PM

Thanks for the boltdepot link. It's always good to have sources to hunt for unusual parts.

Here are front, back, and side shots of the finished cab. I'm going to break it in for a couple hours before mounting the grill. At this stage it weighs 70.5 lbs. With castors and corners figured in, total height from the ground is 34.25". Pocket handles in the middle of the sides makes it a lot easier to squat down and lift - using good form of course with head up back straight and lifting with the legs. Supporting the lower front edge at the top of my legs at hip level makes it pretty easy to keep it balanced and climb stairs with this thing. The tiltback handle, skid rails, and castors make this box easy to move around. The castors use roller blade wheels with sealed bearings - best ones I've used, highly recommended.

Since this is a sealed 610 which by design has a high low end rolloff, I paired it with my STM900 which is a cheescake amp guaranteed to fatten up any cab. Using both my Carvin SB5000 and Valenti PJ5 basses this matchup is a good one. The lows are tight and percussive, mids growl with a nice presence, and the highs roll off smoothly. Overall this cab has a very nice balance. I just play at moderate volume to break my cabs in. The surrounds started out quite stiff and the volume was lower than I expected, but after an hour things loosend up a bit and the cab got noticeably louder and fuller. I'm sure it's going to round out a bit and settle in the next few days. Oops, have to get to the store to pick up groceries, etc (can't keep my wife waiting any longer) more soon ...

koobie · #23 12-23-2012, 05:27 PM

Nice work, thanks for sharing all your design & build details. I'm really curious how much of an increase in the the off-axis response you'll experience with this cab compared to a standard design 610 cab.

kringle77 · #24 12-23-2012, 06:46 PM

Off-axis will be noticable. Definitely worth doing. Especially if the drivers have a strong upper midrange, like a guitar driver.

RockBobby · #25 12-23-2012, 07:23 PM

Awesome!!!

astack · #26 12-23-2012, 08:20 PM

Beaming for a single 10" is 1.6kHz double that at minimum for a 2x. So same punch factor, but you gain the upper mid details. In theory at least.

5StringPocket · #27 12-23-2012, 09:56 PM

I spent some time today playing and evaluating off-axis response and tonal difference with and without the .5 alignment. Having the switch to go back and forth was quite useful. It's not just theory. Off-axis response in terms of midrange response and perceived volume is noticeably more uniform with the .5 alignment. Not only that, but as you vary your distance from the cab even on-axis the volume and tone seem more consistent. The sound is also less congested with more focus which helps note articulation and sits better in a mix. It still has a nice growl to it with a bit of overdrive on the amp. I'm glad I put the switch in to make two different voices available but going back and forth between the two I'm sold on the .5 alignment - definitely worth doing.

Not having built a sealed cab before, I was hoping I didn't overstuff the box but the bass is solid, not pinched, and actually sounds a bit deeper than I expected from looking at the WinISD plots. It has a good punch to it as one would expect and the high notes stay fat with good sustain. Walking scales up and down the neck, volume and tone of the notes were consistent. I really like the 4 CTS+2 Weber blend. They mix quite well together and provide a balanced tone with enough bass to be solid, great sounding even mids with some growl and complexity, and highs with nice harmonic content and a smooth rolloff. I don't hear any noticeable frequency holes and this cab is not dark sounding like you might expect. I know there are a lot of good tone combinations possible from loading different guitar drivers but I'm not looking for a long term experiment. The .5 alignment with this form factor and combination of drivers cops the tone I was hoping for and checks the boxes for me. I don't think I'd change a thing. I used a steel grill with 62.4% open area which adds some weight but protects the speakers and finishes it off well. Final weight of the cab with grill is 74.8 lbs.

astack · #28 12-23-2012, 10:52 PM

Awesome to hear. Man, I was sold on the LDS route for my next cab, but you've got me itching for another diy...

Also, really curious to hear how you'd compare this beast it to the ML112's.

astack · #29 12-23-2012, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

No rear gaskets on the Webers? That's bizarre.

To be fair to Weber, my Faital didn't have a rear gasket either. But they did have TS specs...

kringle77 · #30 12-24-2012, 06:22 AM

Im still waiting for the weber ts specs and probably always will be. My weber 10fl's are still for sale but Im really thinking about going to half cts neo's and half webers. The webers just have a certain sound that I like.

kringle77 · #31 12-24-2012, 10:55 AM

This morning I ran my 70's svt into my cab loaded with 7 Neo's and 1 celestion G10. It was the first time that I've ran my HPF3 in front of that rig and wow, what a difference. It really focused the midrange. My basement is like an anti-tone chamber. It's horrible for bass so, if something sounds good down there, it's going to kill on a gig. It's actually a good place to try out cabs, in that respect anyway. The hpf removed extra lows but, that actually worked well because the cab sounded the same way close up as is did farther away. This is probably why some folks like schroeder cabs at gigs and not at home. After doing this, I probably won't be experimenting with anymore speakers. This really works for me. I should have done this sooner.

5StringPocket · #32 12-24-2012, 01:29 PM

It's good to hear the 7 Neo's and 1 celestion G10 is working out well for you. My HPF3 worked very well with the low end focus on my twin Kappalite 3012HO cab but didn't seem to make much difference with my sealed 610. My practice area has pretty decent acoustics and that might make a difference. It's a nice little tool to have and for some could make the difference between keeping or selling a cab.

Quote:

Originally Posted by astack

I was sold on the LDS route for my next cab, but you've got me itching for another diy...

Also, really curious to hear how you'd compare this beast it to the ML112's.

DIY is good for trying out ideas and getting it your way but Don does nice work on custom builds. This sealed 610 has similar dimensions and weight as a pair of the ML112s but is a different animal. With those heavy duty 12" woofers and sweet sounding 6" mids the ML112's have more low end and high end extension. If you want maximum slam throughout the bass guitar's full range in a cab that eq's well the ML112s are tough to beat. That said, the 610 has a lot of power on tap in a slightly narrower bandwidth with a more vintage sound and I'm glad I built it. It's a nice addition to the stable.

1958Bassman · #33 12-24-2012, 01:53 PM

For anyone who wants to build their own and can't get T-S parameters, or would rather get them for each driver, Parts Express sells a piece under the Dayton name, called WT-3. It stands for 'Woofer Tester' and it measures the parameters, including Vas. Look for it on their site. I have one and have used it for subwoofers I built for home theaters and my main speakers here, at home- it works. The most recent updated software allows measuring resistance, inductance & capacitance specifically for crossover design accuracy.

With a calibrated mic or using correction tables that are based on specific computer models and sound cards, accurate measurement of response is possible with a program like Room EQ Wizard- it's a free download that can be found by entering its name in google.

**bass4worship** · #34 12-24-2012, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5StringPocket

Thanks for the boltdepot link. It's always good to have sources to hunt for unusual parts.

Here are front, back, and side shots of the finished cab. I'm going to break it in for a couple hours before mounting the grill. At this stage it weighs 70.5 lbs. With castors and corners figured in, total height from the ground is 34.25". Pocket handles in the middle of the sides makes it a lot easier to squat down and lift - using good form of course with head up back straight and lifting with the legs. Supporting the lower front edge at the top of my legs at hip level makes it pretty easy to keep it balanced and climb stairs with this thing. The tiltback handle, skid rails, and castors make this box easy to move around. The castors use roller blade wheels with sealed bearings - best ones I've used, highly recommended.

Since this is a sealed 610 which by design has a high low end rolloff, I paired it with my STM900 which is a cheescake amp guaranteed to fatten up any cab. Using both my Carvin SB5000 and Valenti PJ5 basses this matchup is a good one. The lows are tight and percussive, mids growl with a nice presence, and the highs roll off smoothly. Overall this cab has a very nice balance. I just play at moderate volume to break my cabs in. The surrounds started out quite stiff and the volume was lower than I expected, but after an hour things loosend up a bit and the cab got noticeably louder and fuller. I'm sure it's going to round out a bit and settle in the next few days. Oops, have to get to the store to pick up groceries, etc (can't keep my wife waiting any longer) more soon ...

Beautiful job, looks like a killer cab.

astack · #35 12-24-2012, 02:09 PM

Yeah, they were VERY slamming and like you said with the HPF3 I may have ended up not selling them. But for $1500 in cab, I felt I went overboard

I'm almost over it. Anyway, my search for my "big" rock rig continues. Between your and Kringle's threads, I think I'm on the right path. High hopes for my 12's project that I'll finally get back to in the new year.

Hmm, thoughts on a .5 aligned vertical 2x12? I've noticed standing within 5ft of the cab, I'm outside the "beam." That's even with a 5° slanted baffle. Sorry in advance for all the thread derails.

will33 · #36 12-24-2012, 05:05 PM

Nice job 5stringpocket. Solid work.

From your tone descriptiins and eyeballing specs and stuff, that sounds like a cab I'd really like. And from seeing preamp curves and other reviews of the Streamliner, etc....a great match.

5StringPocket · #37 12-25-2012, 08:19 PM

Thanks, the match with the Streamliner is what I'd hoped for. If you're in the Houston area send me a PM and you can stop over and try it out. The "modified SVT" settings work very well - gain button out, gain and volume 2:30-3:00, bass 9:30, mids 10:00@600 hz, treble 12:30, master 9:30-10:00. Funny thing is these settings are also the preferred for my twin 3012HO cab with one difference; the mid switch position is at 2.5 khz.

Astack, I can't see the need for .5 alignment on a vertical 212. This is really used where you have drivers side by side to minimize horizontal cancellation of upper mids and highs.

The sealed 610 sounds good with my Carvin SB5000 single coil jazz bass but really comes into its own with my Nordie-equipped Valenti PJ5. The low mid grunt and push from that P-bass mojo is the perfect complement to the STM900/sealed 610 and the J p/u gives it some snap. It's really percussive with a lot of attitude and a great groove - lovin it. Many of my favorite tunes from Zeppelin, Stones, Sound Garden, Stone Temple Pilots, Skynyrd, ZZ Top, Satriani, SRV, and many others have this sound. You don't have to hunt for it, it's just there. That bit of extra height versus a 410 along with the .5 alignment makes a noticeable improvement in the way you hear yourself.
Sorry the camera flash is a bit much but here is my 610 rig:

NKBassman · #38 01-14-2013, 12:26 PM

Nice looking project and great thread!

If I find the time this summer (BIG if...), I'd like to try building a sealed 610. This project you've so graciously shared seems to hit alot of my main points, I'd just need to double check the dimensions that it'd fit into my car.

That being said, I had a couple of questions...

How well do you think a similar cab would work with Eminence B810s instead of the fliptop neos? Obvously it would be heavier, but I already own 4 of the B810 speakers which I'd like to make use of.

My original plan was just to get two more B810s and run the whole cab full range, but now I'm curious about the Webers and the .5 alignment. From your description of the tone, it sounded like like the .5 alignment improved things considerably.

I don't know much about crossovers, so if I decide to go with the .5 alignment I'd likely need to copy something that already exists (yours) or buy one off the shelf. I'm assuming you built yours?

kringle77 · #39 01-14-2013, 01:41 PM

The b810's will sound almost exactly the same. They actually have just alittle more low end than the neo's but, maybe not quite as bright. It is a small difference. It's mostly the weight savings that nice with the neo's. I highly recommend doing the .5 alignment with a switch for fullrange. I also really like having a guitar driver in there for extra top. Im using a celesion G10 but may try an eminence copper head. The jensen mod10-50 is also a great one, though you may want to use a 16ohm one to get the sensativity up where it needs to be. In all reality, I kind of wish that I did a 6x10 now because the drivers sound better when they are being hit harder and 8 of them put out alot of sound.

NKBassman · #40 01-14-2013, 02:39 PM

Thanks Kringle. I was sort of following your 10s Swapping thread, but you guys lost me by about page 2...

Let me just make sure I have this straight... Three of the woofers are low passed at 500 Hz, and one woofer and the two Webers in this case are run full range? So the only "crossover" is just a 500 Hz LPF on one side? Seems easy enough... Was there any basis for choosing 500 Hz as the cutoff frequency?

Also, if that's the case, then the fact that the B810 doesn't have as much top end as the Fliptop neo doesn't matter because they're mostly low passed anyway...

Kringle, keeping in mind I need to do something with my four B810s, your suggestion would then be to swap out one of the full range Webers for the Jensen? Would you need to high pass the Jensen to protect it, or would you still run it full range? 5StringPocket's description of the tone he achieved with this cab pretty much nailed it for me... I'd worry about a guitar driver taking things higher than I'd like.