My Avatar 210 sounds... not so great

mremic01 · #1 08-05-2010, 05:59 PM

Hi all. I recently got a used Avatar 210 Neo that I'm not too happy with. I'm playing through a Little Mark III. I went to GC to try out different gear combos, and I found out that my cab seemed to be the biggest tone sucker in my rig. You guys rave about Avatars, so I'm wondering if maybe something is wrong with it. The cheaper cabs at GC sounded so much more full, rich, and present. Even the Acoustic cabs, which people seem to recommend Avatar over, were better. Has anyone else had a similar experience, or is my cab just a dud?

levis76 · #2 08-05-2010, 06:09 PM

I had a 6x10 loaded with the exact model speaker that Avatar uses in their Neo cabs, since I ordered them directly from Avatar. They sounded great, nice and deep for a neo.

Check to make sure they are wired properly. If the one of the speakers are wired backwards, they phase cancel and it doesn't sound good at all, especially in a cab with only two.

Hope this helps.

mremic01 · #3 08-05-2010, 06:43 PM

Do I just need to make sure positive meets positive and negative meets negative?

I did check it with a multimeter when I first got it and it came out to be something like 6 ohms. It's supposed to be an 8 ohm cab, but remember reading somewhere that the tweeter effects it so I didn't think much of it.

timbledum · #4 08-05-2010, 06:47 PM

Ohms is quite weird because it changes depending on the frequency. I wouldn't look too much into the multimeter readings. (thats why you can have an 8 ohm sub crossed over with an 8 ohm midrange/tweeter and it still overall equal 8 ohm)

Somebody more knowledgable is sure to clarify/correct me however.

Edit: I read here once that you can check polarity by putting a battery (dc current) to the speaker terminals, if one goes in and one goes out you gotta probem. Again at your own risk YMMV yaddi yaddi ya.

NineSpine · #5 08-05-2010, 06:48 PM

I don't think the tweeter should throw it off that far. You might have speakers with mismatched impedance, which would explain the poor sound.

username1 · #6 08-05-2010, 06:50 PM

An easy way to check the polarity without removing the speakers is to just plug a guitar cable into the 1/4 in. jack on the back and touch a 9 volt battery to the end of the cable with + touching the tip and - touching the ground. Both speakers should jump in the same direction outward.

markkoelsch · #7 08-05-2010, 06:52 PM

Using a multimeter you are getting the purely dc resistive load. Impedance is what we are after, and it is frequency dependent. Very few regularly equipped people have the device you need to measure it.

It could be that your speaker are wired out of phase. Check to make sure the positive goes to positive, and the negative goes to negative on each speaker. Or to put it more simply, make sure the same colored wires connect to the same connector.

mremic01 · #8 08-05-2010, 06:58 PM

Ok, so I'm looking inside of the cab right now. With the connector facing upwards, both speakers have a red wire on the right side with the black wire on the left. The tweeter, again with the connector facing upwards, has a white wire on the left and the black wire on the right.

The speakers look different from the back. They are both made by Eminence. It looks like I'd have to take them out from the front to see what their serial numbers are.

I'm going to check their impedances now to see if they're the same.

Edit: They both come in at about 11.8 ohms. I'll try the 9v trick now.

Edit: They both jump in the same direction. Could the tweeter be out of phase?

timbledum · #9 08-05-2010, 07:35 PM

I believe the tweeter is supposed to be the opposite phase, but regardless it won't have any effect or ability to cancel out lower frequencys. Maybe you just expect too much from two relatively small speakers???

jgroh · #10 08-05-2010, 07:40 PM

Is this a new cab? Could you send it back or contact Avatar for help? If you decide to go to another 2x10, look at the Ampeg SVT210AV...I just got one and that thing rocks!

MysticMichael · #11 08-05-2010, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mremic01

Hi all. I recently got a used Avatar 210 Neo that I'm not too happy with. I'm playing through a Little Mark III. I went to GC to try out different gear combos, and I found out that my cab seemed to be the biggest tone sucker in my rig. You guys rave about Avatars, so I'm wondering if maybe something is wrong with it. The cheaper cabs at GC sounded so much more full, rich, and present. Even the Acoustic cabs, which people seem to recommend Avatar over, were better. Has anyone else had a similar experience, or is my cab just a dud?

What specifically is wrong with the sound? Specifically.

MM

mremic01 · #12 08-05-2010, 08:03 PM

The cab is used. I got if off ebay maybe 2 months ago. The sound is useable, but disappointing. At first I wasn't sure what it was that was lacking in my tone, but I narrowed it down to that cab. When I run it with my Acoustic B200 combo, the 15'' speaker is much clearer while the Avatar adds a little bit of volume, but is very indistinct and sounds somewhat muffled in comparison. At GC, I spent a lot of time comparing it with the Markbass Traveller 2x10. From reading threads here, my understanding is that Markbass cabs 'need some work', and that you guys tend to prefer Avatars over them, but compared to the Traveller, my Avatar sounded a little muffled and less present. I guess you could say that it makes the rig sound like a cheap rig rather than a decent one.

billfitzmaurice · #13 08-05-2010, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mremic01

The speakers look different from the back.

That's probably what's wrong. Picture worth thousand words. I bet the guy who sold it to you blew a driver and replaced it with the wrong model.

levis76 · #14 08-05-2010, 09:10 PM

+1 on wrong driver replaced. Post a pic of the backs of the drivers and we can tell you which is correct and which is not. You can order the correct replacement from Avatar. I forget what they cost, but it's less than you'll pay anywhere else. To offset the cost, you can sell the other driver here on TB, of course you'll have to become a supporting member.

c3powil · #15 08-05-2010, 09:17 PM

I just recently sold the same model cab on ebay, but I thought it sounded awesome. Check your speakers for the exact model.

mremic01 · #16 08-05-2010, 09:27 PM

Here are the speakers from behind. They look the same in the front:

otis_thick · #17 08-05-2010, 09:45 PM

Those are not the type in my 410 Neos. Also remember Avatar's models are OEM and made a little different than what you can normally get as a replacement. If the previous owner got a different type than the OEM version...the cone excursion will not travel as far as the originals and result in less air movement and that sounds like less low end....

levis76 · #18 08-05-2010, 10:02 PM

The one with the silver donut on it is an imposter. Avatar uses the one with the extra fins for heat dispersion. Yank the other one, sell it, and use the $$$ to get yourself the right driver from Avatar. Call them, they are very easy to deal with.

1n3 · #19 08-06-2010, 01:26 AM

Both are Deltalite 2510s, but different generations. The one with the all-black magnet is an original Deltalite; the one with the "silver donut" is a Deltalite II.

The second generation is improved over the first, but I can't give specifics. The first gen is no longer on the Eminence website, and even if it were, the specs for Avatar's version might differ from the stock model. True for the Deltalite IIs, at least.

I'd replace the older one, if only because the new model should be easier to find. Assuming the newer one is an Avatar OEM 2510, that's what you'd need.

Ya gotta hope this cab didn't leave the factory this way.

levis76 · #20 08-06-2010, 07:16 AM

Best solution is to call Avatar and talk to someone. They can tell you which one belongs and sell you the correct replacement.