My bass amp vs. my guitarists'

Hector_G · #1 05-31-2010, 10:27 AM

A while ago I made a post about being in a metal band with two guitarists who did NOT know how to control their volume.
Even with my 1,000 watt Carvin amp running a 410 and 115 I could barely be heard when playing some small shows with no PA. That band soon after fell apart.

Now I'm playing in a punk band with two guitarists. One of them has a Mesa Boogie 150 watt Triple Rectifier running a 4x12.

The other guitarist had a small 2x12 Dual Rectifier combo. On Saturday he went out and purchased the same 150w Triple Rectifier.

HOLY COW! Do you have any idea how absolutely loud these amps are?
Last night we had our first practice with both guitarists running their unholy half stacks of doom and...
it was ok. These guitarists know how to control their volume! It's amazing.
I love how they realize that the volume knobs can be below 5 in a tiny practice room. Oh the discipline involved in this blows my mind as I've been used to people blasting their amps just because they can.

We've yet to have our first show, so we'll see how good they are then.

Just a story I thought I'd share.

Munjibunga · #2 05-31-2010, 10:29 AM

Rick Auricchio · #3 05-31-2010, 10:31 AM

When you play with guitarists who understand how to balance the band and not just play as a solo act, you actually get good-sounding music.

It would also help if they tilted their cabs to point toward their ears, but that works better with combo amps. Otherwise there's no place to put the amp head.

mremic01 · #4 05-31-2010, 10:43 AM

Your guitarists are idiots for getting those amps, but at least they're turning them down. A dual rectifier is already overkill. A single recto would be more than enough for any guitarist. The only advantage a dual/triple has over the single is that they both have 3 channels instead of 2, and I believe the single does not have rectifier tubes. It's hard enough to get a dual recto sounding decent at reasonable volumes simply because those amps _need_ to be loud, and it's that much worse with a triple.

The guy with the 2x12 dual would have been better to downsize rather than get a bigger rig. Also, two rectos in one band sounds awful. They're great rhythm amps, but not lead. When you try to play leads, it just sounds fizzy, and they don't cut very well either. It sounds like your bandmates have way too much money to blow with no real consideration regarding how their gear will affect their role in the band, but at least they're being considerate.

I would suggest that if their cabs allow for it, they only play out of two speakers (stereo). I would also suggest the rhythm guitarist get a single recto and the lead guitarist gets something more geared towards playing leads (something marshally, or maybe a mark if he needs it to be a mesa).

smeet · #5 05-31-2010, 04:46 PM

-1

Just as with bass, a good player can make any decent rig sound good in almost any situation. The guitarists' rigs are more than decent, if they have good ears it will sound fine.

Hector_G · #6 05-31-2010, 10:29 PM

Yeah, not too sure about that. The two Triple Recs sound pretty darned good. We'll give it a few practices so that both of the guys can EQ their rigs to compliment one another.

I will agree to get that ultimate guitar roar sound you'd need to really crank the amps, but they do sound absolutely fine however at lower levels.

These are awesome amps (although might be overkill) and they do kick as in many many situations.

mremic01 · #7 05-31-2010, 10:55 PM

I do like rectifiers, I just don't see the point in 150 watts for guitar, ever. Think of the cost for a retube.

But if they can make it work... I've never had much luck at low volumes anyway, rectos just always seem to need to be cranked.

will33 · #8 05-31-2010, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smeet

-1

Just as with bass, a good player can make any decent rig sound good in almost any situation. The guitarists' rigs are more than decent, if they have good ears it will sound fine.

+1 to you. A good musician who happens to play guitar can use a hugely loud rig at a small gig and both keep a volume level that suits the overall product and sound good doing it. A guitar player who happens to play with musicians can not.

A 1000 watt bass rig turns down as well as up just as a 150 watt guitar rig does.

6jase5 · #9 05-31-2010, 11:55 PM

My last band had a triple rec and a plexi with both guys running 412's. Never had a problem hearing myself with a 1x15 / 1x10 combo cab, and both guys had great tone. The right player as stated can make any rig sing.

The opposite can also be said (see Guitar Center noise)

iri5h_punk21 · #10 05-31-2010, 11:59 PM

I know your pain...I'm running a 600 watt Euphonic Audio through a MESA 1200 powerhouse, and i STILL have to crank it to keep up with my guitarist's Peavey JSX...

Sartori · #11 06-01-2010, 03:05 AM

My guitarist actually has a fairly ridiculous amount of wattage. He's got one of those really high powered Peavey heads they made a few decades ago. It can get absurdly loud, but most of the time he doesn't turn it up high.

Our band's overall volume is usually decided by the drummer.

Din Of Win · #12 06-01-2010, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hector_G

Now I'm playing in a punk band with two guitarists. One of them has a Mesa Boogie 150 watt Triple Rectifier running a 4x12.

something here does not match...

Haha, kidding... kinda...

But seriously, what's with the no-fun club "rabble rabble 150w is too much rabble rabble". As long as they know how to control their volume, what does it matter? As long as they're happy with what they are playing and it sounds like they want it to sound.

I've played with many-a full stack guitarists (Sunn 2000s, Sunn 300T, Marshalls, Peavey VTMs...) and it's prefectly fine when everything is mixed well. Just because you CAN go to 11 does not mean you NEED to go to 11 and just because you CAN get the same volume in a lil' micro amp, doesn't mean that you NEED to.

Also, while contentious, it's just fact that a lot of aesthetic thought goes into gear these days. Love it or hate it... no reason to bash it...

JimmyM · #13 06-01-2010, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Din Of Win

But seriously, what's with the no-fun club "rabble rabble 150w is too much rabble rabble". As long as they know how to control their volume, what does it matter? As long as they're happy with what they are playing and it sounds like they want it to sound.

could not agree more. his guitarists are no more idiots for wanting good amps with triple rectification and quiet volumes than i am for using an svt/810 even though i could easily do most of my gigs on a little ss 50w combo.

some people just like to read their own words, i guess.

Hector_G · #14 06-01-2010, 02:59 PM

Also, I think it looks awesome and impressive to have that wall of amps behind you.

Most of the venues around here only have PA support for vocals and maybe the kick. So if we all work together and discuss the game plan, no one will be left underpowered or unheard at these shows. Or the other way around, too loud or overpowering in the mix.

I am a huge fan of the "better to have too much power and not need it..." way of thinking.

coreyfyfe · #15 06-01-2010, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Auricchio

It would also help if they tilted their cabs to point toward their ears, but that works better with combo amps. Otherwise there's no place to put the amp head.

This is the issue the guitarist in one of my bands has. He's like 6' 15" so even with the slant-cab he has trouble hearing his cab if he's too close. He's good about keeping things to a relative volume though and not cranking it just because he can't hear perfectly.

Hector_G · #16 06-01-2010, 07:33 PM

6 feet 15 inches?!
That's incredible.

Mo'Phat · #17 06-01-2010, 08:35 PM

I wish my guitarist had a triple rec. Seriously. His Korean telecaster through a Fender Twin just isn't the sound I am longing for in my head. Chances are, my rig isn't the tone he's wanting either, which means we will fail miserably. But, it's a fun gig.