My second-ever Talkbass thread is to say "THANK YOU" to the Amps forum!!!

Tangentor · #1 06-12-2010, 10:06 AM

Ever since my old best friend's band courted me out of 'bass retirement" this month (I've been playing drums in a different cover tune band for the past 4 years), I've been in a hurried search for a decent "re-starter" rig. This forum has offered the richest research material, and I owe you all thanks for sharing your experience here!

My old Hartke 7000 head (purchased 1996) and my old SWR Workingman's 410T cab (purchased 1998) have been in my garage after living in my guitarist's jam room for several years, and apparently getting abused by an idiot or two there. The head won't turn on, and had been in the shop several times for power switch issues, and something about a transformer - it was awhile back. The SWR cab's status is unknown, but somewhat in doubt:

(The photo doesn't show it well, but the bottom left corner is either smashed or rotten... I snapped a pic last week but didn't dig it out of the garage for a closer look)

I knew I could fix both of these pieces, but wanted something different anyway - so I started lurking here.

Since for the last several years I've been concerned with 60s vs 70s Zildjian hi hats, or pingy vs. washy sounding ride cymbals, I was COMPLETELY unaware of the newer Class D bass amps out these days.

I also didn't know about many of the brand names so prevalent in bass playing today.... Markbass, Genz Benz, Aguilar, etc. They probably existed when I was last playing bass, but I didn't know about them until a few weeks ago. A lot has changed in the bass world!

This forum led me to HEAVILY lust after a Carvin BX1500. It also led me somewhat question the current build quality, and sadly decide to leave that one for later (since I don't have a backup head!)

Anyway, after much deliberation, I drove over to Bass Central yesterday, and scored a rig that is within my budget and surpasses my sonic expectations:

Aguilar S410 cab, used
Gallien-Krueger MB500, new
ProCo Speakon cable, short

This rig makes both of my passive Fender basses sound amazing, and (rightfully) leaves a lot of tone options where I think they belong: in the fingers and onboard tone controls.

I think if I had never visited Talkbass (the Amps forum AND the reviews), I would have settled for another Hartke (not that there's anything wrong with that) and continued to wonder what kind of tonal vistas I would miss.

Thank you all!

Tangentor · #2 06-12-2010, 10:07 AM

P.S. My FIRST thread was to say thank you to Bass Central

Thanks to Ed Gaffert for helping me pick an Aguilar cabinet and a GK MB-500!

mulchor · #3 06-12-2010, 10:15 AM

Sounds awesome!

Congrats!

But we have a rule around here.
No pix = no new amp

Tangentor · #4 06-12-2010, 11:12 AM

Ah - so I suspected

Tangentor · #5 06-12-2010, 11:20 AM

I'm not sure of the specs, but an old PDF that I found from SWR states that my old 4x10 cab might indeed be an 8 ohm model.

If so, I could put my old SWR 4x10 cab underneath the new Aguilar for an 8x10 stack at 500 watts, right?

Of course, this is assuming that the old cab still works, and that even if it did, it wouldn't dilute the excellent sounds I'm already hearing from the lone Aguilar. I'd almost certainly want to disable the SWR's relatively shrill tweeter.

Frankie Fender · #6 06-12-2010, 12:04 PM

Congrats! that looks like a beautiful rig. And to answer your question, yes, two 8 Ohm cabs = 4 Ohms. Give it a shot.

lomo · #7 06-12-2010, 03:20 PM

Cool. When i see those micro heads i always think of the line in the movie Alladin as he puts the evil genie back in the bottle: "Phenomenal cosmic power............itty bitty livin' space"

Tangentor · #8 06-12-2010, 03:37 PM

Good one, lomo

I admit, I must have seemed pretty closed-minded to the gentleman at Bass Central. I was hearing these amazing sounds coming from the little MB-500, and STILL looking around like a cat in a fish market for a head with a little more heft...

Eventually I came around, but I still somewhat worry that the MB500 might fail to keep up with the new band.

In the controlled environment of my living room, I've already hurt my ears with this amp (idiot!!!) It is plenty loud, but I won't really know until I get it in the context of the new band.

Their drummer is one of those amazing and rare specimens that 1) keeps great time 2) keeps his volume to a tasteful level all night. I believe this setup will have no problem at all keeping up with him, at least.

With the two guitarists, I'll just have to EQ myself into their mix. I think my personal preference for 60s-70s recorded bass sounds (James Jamerson, "Revolver"-era Paul McCartney) with that boost around 200-250hz, will sit well underneath their frequencies. Their current bassist favors the lower lows, and IMO leaves a huge hollow in the low-mids. His sound seems superimposed over the rest of the band, and at odds with it at times, where I would hope to fit in and mingle with the mix.

It occurred to me that my EQ preference is probably a bit easier on this small amp at higher volumes, too... (?)

lomo · #9 06-12-2010, 04:32 PM

IMO 500 watts should be luxurious with that 410. I suspect the GK and the Aggy marriage is very big on the bottom........a wonderful thing in a bass rig

Tangentor · #10 06-12-2010, 05:14 PM

You're exactly right, at least from what I've heard in my less-than-optimal living room (tiled floors, vaulted ceiling, tile all down the hall)...

There is no lack of lows from this rig. I'm sure if I moved it to a different spot in the room, that could all change, but maybe not... the lows are solid and clean.

Just to test everything, I was running the P-bass with flats with its tone knob all the way down. It was like stripping away a veneer of high frequencies, only to reveal a gorgeous and deep presence of pure bass. There was zero ambiguity in the notes I played; they registered as separate tones without having treble to clue the ear in.

I tested the same concept with the J-bass and got a similar impression.

It almost seems as if (on all EQ/boost/volume settings) this rig is letting me hear the true tones of my basses. If anything, it's patently obvious that I need to change my strings on the J!

I have actually dialed down the Bass EQ knob, with no apparent ill effect. The low-mids sound good cranked up, but paradoxically, they also sound good (in different ways) flat, or most of the way down!

I guess I won't know until I get it in a room with these guys and their instruments.

lomo · #11 06-12-2010, 08:15 PM

My guess is you'll want to trim bass and add mids in a band setting with that setup in order to get clarity-let us know how it goes.

**B-string** · #12 06-12-2010, 08:58 PM

One of the beauties of Gallien's designs, every note is clear.

will33 · #13 06-12-2010, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lomo

My guess is you'll want to trim bass and add mids in a band setting with that setup in order to get clarity-let us know how it goes.

I would expect this as well. Sounds like you've got a good ear and a good idea of frequency and how to fit things in a mix. Bob Gallien posted on here once in a while, especially when the MB2-500 came out, there were long threads about it. He says it is voiced a little heavy in the lows (which I would rather have and dial out if needed) and his advice for a flattish even starting point to begin tweaking from was to set the bass control an noon and the lowmid, highmid and treble to about 1:00.

If you can hear that the former bass player was heavy in the lows and hollow in the low mids, have spent time comparing the timber of various cymbals and have compared speaker placement within given room boundries, you're miles ahead of a lot of guys and will sound great with it...enjoy.

If your SWR is an 8ohm cab, you can stack the two if needed although I would remove the grill and the bottom left speaker and have a look at that corner, might be time to bust out the saw and the screw gun. Check a speaker and the wiring scheme and see that it is an 8ohm cab while you're in there. Might want to re-inforce that with some 3/4" scrap plywood. Can screw it on the inside and it'll still look the same from the outside. Even if you don't want it/don't need it, it'll be worth at least a couple three hundred bucks on the used market.....might get you one good cymbal.

Munjibunga · #14 06-13-2010, 12:14 AM

You done good, man. Congrats.

kesslari · #15 06-13-2010, 12:21 AM

Nice. Enjoy. And welcome back to the dark side

Tangentor · #16 06-13-2010, 10:59 AM

Thank you all for your kind words. Thank you in particular, Will33, for the advice on the old cab... I'm not very handy, but even that sounds doable, on a good day at least!

Should I be worried about reliability? I've read the MB2-500 threads enough to (somewhat) realize that the MB-500 is a slightly different animal with its limit switch, but wasn't entirely sure if the 'breaking down in the middle of a gig' aspect was fixed in most players' opinions.

So far, I've run the MB-500 at loud living room volumes for short and longer spurts - turning it off & on 20+ times, and unplugging it from the wall whenever done - with nary a hiccup of any kind. Should I be worried about the thing shutting down on me at a gig (I have no backup yet), or worried about the often-used switches (for me, the MUTE) failing? I've never had an amp with a mute switch, and, unsurprisingly, it's handy when switching from J to P and back again (can't seem to get enough of how either of them sound through this amp!!!)

Then again, as I worry, I recall reading an opinion here on Talkbass recently - I'll paraphrase - "Even the cheapest rig should last a year. If it can't, it probably wouldn't have made it to the store shelves."

I'm probably just piling 'amp insecurities' atop my bigger concerns, such as "I hope I play the songs well," "I hope I don't get fired for imitating Steve Harris," and "I hope this bass covers up my fat roll."

**B-string** · #17 06-13-2010, 11:24 AM

MB-500 is the MB2-500 that has been proved and early troubles sorted out. RAG takes the fact that his name (Gallien) is on every product very personally.

will33 · #18 06-13-2010, 11:36 AM

Ya, that amp's been out long enough if there ever were any quirks they had to have been ironed out by now. GK has a great rep. for reliability, there are plenty of guys around here gigging 800rb's that are 20+ years old with nary a problem.

will33 · #19 06-13-2010, 11:41 AM

Some cool video's here http://www.normstockton.blogspot.com/ of Bob Gallien and the GK facility.

Tangentor · #20 06-13-2010, 01:56 PM

Cool videos, indeed... though they didn't mention the MB-500, their constant mentions of the quality they're getting out of their Chinese factory does seem reassuring.

The part about the "backwards" EQ, with treble first in the chain and each pot affecting the next, was fascinating! Truly, the EQ on my rig is powerful. I find myself staying within 9:00 and 3:00 at the maximum for most of my living room settings. I've often been cranking the low mids, sometimes to 4:00, but I can't decide in this environment if it's really helping... sometimes it sounds perfect with everything flat!

I did try the 1:00 | 1:00 | 1:00 12:00 thing, and sure enough, that seemed like a good starting place for a room.

I just realized, I ought to post my further GK MB-500 questions & musings in an appropriately named thread if I want help!