is it my speaker?

BassGreaser · #1 08-12-2010, 09:42 AM

So i have had my LDS 1x15 for a week or so now. It is loaded with a Weber Mich 15" and when I first plugged my AMpeg B25B into it it sound was nice and around very natural. I have played on it at low volume for 4 hours before bringing it to a low volume rehearsal. It played great at the rehearsal. The tone was alittle weeker sounding as it was a larger living room. We rehearsed for 8 hours straight. Well last night i took it to a rock band rehearsal I had to fill in for their bassist, and it couldnt keep up at all. The more i would turn up the thinner/muddy the tone would get, and i would get a thin distortion on the high end. Now this rock band doesnt practice at ear splitting levels and I have used my AMpeg B25B for a few years with a rewired (to 16ohm) EBS Classic 4x10 and I could keep turn that setup up and have filled a 250 seat place without PA support. Now I know 1x15 isnt going to be as loud as a 4x10, but I cant even use this on med volume gigs. So my question is.. does this sound like my Weber just cant handle what i need it to do? or is it the cab its in?

christw · #2 08-12-2010, 10:00 AM

Could be that the sensitivity of the 115 is lower than that of the 410, as is generally the case. But, those are two different animals and I can't say for sure.

The 410 is rated at 99 dB... I can't seem to find anything specific on the Weber. Is it ceramic or alnico? What's it's power handling?

BassGreaser · #3 08-12-2010, 10:07 AM

its ceramic and the power handling is 100watts. My B25B is 55watts. Don at LDS fully tested the speaker for its specs and built the cab to the speaker. He said the Speaker goes down to 40hz easy and tune ported the cab to 50hz. Don did say that the speaker did not require alot of watts to get loud..

christw · #4 08-12-2010, 10:20 AM

I was just asking because if you look at variations of the same speaker like some Weber's, as power handling goes up, you lose a little sensitivity. Anyways, going with my moderately limited knowledge...

One thing to note that seems to keep cropping up is that speaker's maximum excursion tends to come before it's max thermal handling. So, basically, it might be moving as much as it can, even if you aren't pushing a full 100 watts into it. This effect may be exaggerated by using a port to allow for more bass response and more speaker travel on the low notes. If you're cranking the tuber, you can push more than 55 watts into it and might be maxing it out.

BassGreaser · #5 08-12-2010, 10:26 AM

yeah I think thats its right there. I tend to have a nice full tone, and I am using this rig with my upright (which already has big lowend in its tone) playing. When playing the speaker is jumping around alot.

christw · #6 08-12-2010, 10:30 AM

Try cutting the bass on the head a bit? I know it's not the perfect cure, but it might help and give you some extra headroom with the sacrifice of a little booty. The ported 15" design won't lend itself to being as punchy as a 410 anyways, which is what I look for for URB.

Or, you can always try to A/B cabinets. Find your favorite 410 tone and attempt to match it (without maxing the speaker) with the 115 to find it's limits at various volume levels so you know exactly what to expect.

BassGreaser · #7 08-12-2010, 10:36 AM

Good idea... It's just a little dissapointing when you hope something you have had custom built just doesnt deliver what you thought it would. Now Don's cab he built has an amazing high level of quality to it.. so thats a plus i guess haha

christw · #8 08-12-2010, 10:43 AM

Perhaps your expectations were the issue?

Just kidding...

Since he obviously knows a lot about speakers and his cabinets, you can always ask him if there is a suitable drop-in replacement that won't max out as quickly but still retain the qualities you were looking for in the first place.

billfitzmaurice · #9 08-12-2010, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BassGreaser

So i have had my LDS 1x15 for a week or so now. It is loaded with a Weber Mich 15" and when I first plugged my AMpeg B25B into it it sound was nice and around very natural. I have played on it at low volume for 4 hours before bringing it to a low volume rehearsal. It played great at the rehearsal. The tone was alittle weeker sounding as it was a larger living room. We rehearsed for 8 hours straight. Well last night i took it to a rock band rehearsal I had to fill in for their bassist, and it couldnt keep up at all. The more i would turn up the thinner/muddy the tone would get, and i would get a thin distortion on the high end. Now this rock band doesnt practice at ear splitting levels and I have used my AMpeg B25B for a few years with a rewired (to 16ohm) EBS Classic 4x10 and I could keep turn that setup up and have filled a 250 seat place without PA support. Now I know 1x15 isnt going to be as loud as a 4x10, but I cant even use this on med volume gigs. So my question is.. does this sound like my Weber just cant handle what i need it to do? or is it the cab its in?

That's what you'd expect with a driver with a short xmax. It reaches maximum excursion in the low end early, and while additional power applied will make it go louder in the mids and highs, it won't go louder in the lows. But it will cause distortion, and heat, and if you're not careful driver failure. I don't see any T/S specs on the Weber site to confirm that this is the problem, but that's my best guess.

rpsands · #10 08-12-2010, 10:53 AM

It's billed as a guitar driver, you can count on 0mm to 2mm xmax, almost for sure.

1- don't mix it with bass cabs without a crossover, it won't compete
2- don't run it with lots of juice. I'd ballpark a 50w tube head as the most you probably want.

Since you're using a 50 watt tube head the answer is probably that you're turning up bass too much for the driver. Each 3db of bass halves power handling.

You can most likely expect the driver to start distorting after just a couple watts of <100hz content. Once it's past this limitation you can expect it to not really get any louder in the lows, at least not cleanly.

It might be worth emailing Weber for some TS specs

BurningSkies · #11 08-12-2010, 11:36 AM

Huh. It doesn't seem like an obvious choice. I'm surprised that LDS would have suggested it.

BassGreaser · #12 08-12-2010, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BurningSkies

Huh. It doesn't seem like an obvious choice. I'm surprised that LDS would have suggested it.

Don didnt I supplied the speaker as its one of the very few 16ohm 15"s that i have seen. So I made the gamble on tring a speaker that looked good, but didnt work. I am just going to pull the speaker out, sell it and ask Don about what he thinks will work in the cab. Live and learn, live and learn

lbwdog · #13 08-12-2010, 08:09 PM

Just curious....Why the ~~obsession~~ preference for 16 Ohm?

An Eminence Kappalite 3015 in a proper box would probably knock your socks off compared with this driver.

billfitzmaurice · #14 08-12-2010, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lbwdog

Just curious....Why the ~~obsession~~ preference for 16 Ohm?

An Eminence Kappalite 3015 in a proper box would probably knock your socks off compared with this driver.

Even better a 3015LF, which has enough excursion to keep up with a 4x10.

BassGreaser · #15 08-12-2010, 09:53 PM

i need a 16ohm speaker as thats what my Ampeg B25b runs at

BurningSkies · #16 08-12-2010, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BassGreaser

i need a 16ohm speaker as thats what my Ampeg B25b runs at

What about something that has two 8ohm speakers run in series? You'd have a fighting chance of getting bass speakers.

BassGreaser · #17 08-12-2010, 10:41 PM

yeah I think i might just sell this and go back to a 4x10 and just rewire the 4x10 to a 16ohm load

lbwdog · #18 08-12-2010, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

Even better a 3015LF, which has enough excursion to keep up with a 4x10.

Yeah, I was thinking standalone, but paired with a multi-ten cab, an LF would be better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BassGreaser

i need a 16ohm speaker as thats what my Ampeg B25b runs at

I wonder if there's an easy way to mod the amp for multiple impedances.

How did Fender address that issue on the old Bassman & Showman heads with two speaker outs?

BassGreaser · #19 08-12-2010, 10:57 PM

[quote=lbwdog;9554933]I wonder if there's an easy way to mod the amp for multiple impedances. QUOTE]

There is.. When I had my head retubed the tech said he could change the ohm load to 8ohms as there are alot more options out there for bass.. but at the time i didnt want to have the mod done as i didnt know just how great the head would sound

toobalicious · #20 08-12-2010, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lbwdog

I wonder if there's an easy way to mod the amp for multiple impedances.

yep! just get one of these, and stick it in the other speaker jack. inserting the plug switches the amp to run @ 8 ohms, no other "mod" necessary.

or get the 90 degree one for the more elegant solution--- you can leave it plugged in all of the time.