nEARful data?

[anonymous1015111]

I have been plowing through the thousands of post on the fEARful cabs, read through greenboy's site and every so often someone mentions a "nEARful" cab.
What is the difference between nEARful and fEARful? Is there a dedicated nEARful site?
-P

[wcriley]

A "nEARful" is a cab that is loosely based on greenboy's fEARful design, but is not built to the full specs.

Some of the differences include improper driver placement, less than stellar crossovers, and improper cab size and porting.

[Stev187]

Looks like a nEARful is a modified fEARful by LDS according to this thread.

--Steve

[anonymous1015111]

Ahh got it. I was hoping that it was a 10" driver design, but alas, it is not.
-P

[BurningSkies]

The fEARful AND nEARful designs are predicated on the 3015LF and 3012LF speakers. To date there is no production 3010LF speaker, and given the current neo situation, probably won't be one. Also, if you head over to the fEARful forum, you'll see that there's not much design impetus to design a 10" version of the fEARful style cabs.

To answer your question...a nEARful is any design that approximates a fEARful without actually following the design specs. If you're interested in these designs, you should be more interested in a fEARful (probably the 12.6 if you're looking for smaller form factor).

[floatingaxe]

Originally Posted by Stev187

Looks like a nEARful is a modified fEARful by LDS according to this thread.

--Steve

Except LDSs ARE properly designed.
If you want that kind of design and can't or don't want to build it yourself LDS is a great option.

[rpsands]

I don't know if I'd start throwing around words like properly and not properly. They are not properly fEarfuls, so they're nEarfuls.

fEarfuls use a fairly unique crossover, pay special attention to port frontage and tuning, and the 6nd410/6nm410 and Alpha/alphalites are the only approved midrange drivers for fEarfuls.

Don tends to do a lot of changing around of the port size, bracing schemes, tuning, midrange drivers, and crossover components.

Of those, I think the biggest deal is that unless you ask for it from Don you will get a crossover that is not as good as Greenboy's (at least according to several experts on the subject). The occasional models with grossly insufficient port frontage also make me a sad panda.

[scottbass]

Originally Posted by floatingaxe

Except LDSs ARE properly designed.

Not according to many fEARful fans, myself included. Greenboy, the inventor of the fEARful cabs, does not list them as an authorized builder of his designs.

[floatingaxe]

Originally Posted by rpsands

I don't know if I'd start throwing around words like properly and not properly. They are not properly fEarfuls, so they're nEarfuls.

fEarfuls use a fairly unique crossover, pay special attention to port frontage and tuning, and the 6nd410/6nm410 and Alpha/alphalites are the only approved midrange drivers for fEarfuls.

Don tends to do a lot of changing around of the port size, bracing schemes, tuning, midrange drivers, and crossover components.

Of those, I think the biggest deal is that unless you ask for it from Don you will get a crossover that is not as good as Greenboy's (at least according to several experts on the subject). The occasional models with grossly insufficient port frontage also make me a sad panda.

Sorry, I meant "proper" in that the cabs are tuned, braced, etc. correctly to customer specs and to get the most out of the speaker. They aren't just boxes that are thrown together and slap a speaker in there.
I always took nEarful to mean some guy who looks at the design and says 'I can do that' and grabs some plywood and a 12" woofer from his old stereo and more or less slaps something together. Don's cabs might not be exactly Greenboy's specs but they are still amazing. It can be argued for forever which is "better".

[Bass_Pounder]

Avatar TB153 is considered a "nEarful"

[mikeddd]

A 3-way LDS cab is just that. It may be very nice and sound great, but it's not a fEARful. It may be "close" or "almost identical." To be a fEARful a cab has to have the exact specifications in ALL areas as the fEARful designs call for. To say "I have a fEARful, but I use the Eminence generic crossover" is saying "I don't have a fEARful." Don does great work and is a really talented guy. He builds very nice LDS cabs. To my knowledge, he's never once built a to-spec fEARful, despite telling customers he would when they plunked down their downpayment.. I'm sure it's a matter of personal pride with him to not build "someone else's cab."

"nEARful" is just a term of endearment, really. The fEARfuls are so good that cabs that approximate the peformance and/or look of the real thing are called "nEARfuls" as a handy way of defining what type of cab it is. I.E. slot-vented, 3-way box.

Not trying to piss anyone off (really). Just getting my two cents in. Related/Sensitivity: I am a network guy/server adminstrator by trade. I've worked in data centers and server farms for years. I troubleshoot/stand up servers, switches and routers all day long. I take them apart, put them back together, load the OS, configure, etc. I really AM a Server/Network Administrator. I work with people that use Remote Desktop to connect to servers and move some files around. They call themselves "Server Administrators." Um, NO, you're not! /foot stomp

[BurningSkies]

Originally Posted by floatingaxe

Sorry, I meant "proper" in that the cabs are tuned, braced, etc. correctly to customer specs...

Don's cabs might not be exactly Greenboy's specs but they are still amazing. It can be argued for forever which is "better".

You probably haven't been paying attention. LDS has indeed deviated from customer specs on a bunch of nEARfuls. Some people received something different than ordered or than what they were told they'd get.

For those who expected one thing and got another, we don't have to even argue about better.

[thudfromafar]

Originally Posted by floatingaxe

Sorry, I meant "proper" in that the cabs are tuned, braced, etc. correctly to customer specs and to get the most out of the speaker. They aren't just boxes that are thrown together and slap a speaker in there.
I always took nEarful to mean some guy who looks at the design and says 'I can do that' and grabs some plywood and a 12" woofer from his old stereo and more or less slaps something together. Don's cabs might not be exactly Greenboy's specs but they are still amazing. It can be argued for forever which is "better".

Probably not. I don't see why anyone would go for a nEarful when they can have an official fEarful built for them now. I have an LDS "nEarful" and I think it's a great cab, but I have no reason to believe it would match a true fEarful's performance. Less port area, not as good crossover, inferior driver placement? That's why it's called a nEarful (or a fArful, but I digress)... and not a "just differentful." It might be good but no doubt it falls short... the only thing arguable is by how much it falls short and how it will practically affect the user. But no reason to get a knockoff if the real deal is available so easily now.

[Derek Kiernan]

Originally Posted by floatingaxe

Sorry, I meant "proper" in that the cabs are tuned, braced, etc. correctly to customer specs and to get the most out of the speaker. They aren't just boxes that are thrown together and slap a speaker in there.
I always took nEarful to mean some guy who looks at the design and says 'I can do that' and grabs some plywood and a 12" woofer from his old stereo and more or less slaps something together. Don's cabs might not be exactly Greenboy's specs but they are still amazing. It can be argued for forever which is "better".

I'm not so sure about that. Don not only does things differently, he also does them inconsistently in the sense that people with his nEARfuls have cabinets with a fair amount of variation. Not many people are likely to "improve" upon greenboy's work, and I wouldn't consider anything that compromises the crossover's integration between the woofer and mid to be its equal. I also wouldn't claim that given at least a few of the cabinets are compromised in high volume performance, which is the entire point of using a long-throw woofer with that lowend capability. They're not getting the most out of the speakers. Maybe some people get a little excited about how they're compromised, but there doesn't seem to be a plausible, acceptable reason for him to take the design and give his customers less. I'm not sure anyone has done a speaker-in-a-box and claimed fEARful performance, so nEARful has been a term reserved for the type of quality box Don has been doing.

[rpsands]

I upgraded the crossover to CBG on my LDS fEarful (to specs in every way but the mid chamber and the xover) and noticed a marked difference for the better.

I'd say that people who deny the superiority of GB's crossover are mostly kidding themselves.

[floatingaxe]

Originally Posted by mikeddd

Related/Sensitivity: I am a network guy/server adminstrator by trade. I've worked in data centers and server farms for years. I troubleshoot/stand up servers, switches and routers all day long. I take them apart, put them back together, load the OS, configure, etc. I really AM a Server Administrator. I work with people that use Remote Desktop to connect to servers and move some files around. They call themselves "Server Administrators." Um, NO, you're not! /foot stomp

Amen to that sys admin brother.

However, there might be a lot of people here in TB that would take issue with the idea that the true fEARful design is some kind of standard that LDS doesn't live up to. LDSs are different, sometimes very different, designs. My LDS is a 2-way that by the above definitions would be classified as a nEarful. I’ve seen other LDS designs that are radically different. But many are at least the equal of a true fEARful. It just depends on what the customer wants.
That's all I meant by my original post. I didn't want someone who is new to this stuff thinking that Don's a wannabe.

[thudfromafar]

Originally Posted by rpsands

I upgraded the crossover to CBG on my LDS fEarful (to specs in every way but the mid chamber and the xover) and noticed a marked difference for the better.

I'd say that people who deny the superiority of GB's crossover are mostly kidding themselves.

I'm biamping, unless I need more than ~300 watts. Then I switch to bridged/passive. Still not sure which crossover is in my cab.

[floatingaxe]

Originally Posted by thudfromafar

Less port area, not as good crossover, inferior driver placement? That's why it's called a nEarful (or a fArful, but I digress)... and not a "just differentful." It might be good but no doubt it falls short... the only thing arguable is by how much it falls short and how it will practically affect the user. But no reason to get a knockoff if the real deal is available so easily now.

Maybe. I can't speak to details like that. I don't know much about those kind of speaker science details.
I'll settle for good if it's better than average (better than most name brand for the $$) and cheaper than something else. If I was making lots of dough gigging, maybe I would spend the extra for a cab that angels sang over. Dunno.

[BurningSkies]

Originally Posted by floatingaxe

Maybe. I can't speak to details like that. I don't know much about those kind of speaker science details.
I'll settle for good if it's better than average (better than most name brand for the $$) and cheaper than something else. If I was making lots of dough gigging, maybe I would spend the extra for a cab that angels sang over. Dunno.

It usually comes down to people talking about fEARful users ‘drinking the Kool Aid’. The real problem is that it again usually amounts to people who have never hear one or played one thinking that the cab can’t certainly be as good as all that. Whelp, it is. Because someone who didn’t have any commercial interest sat down and invited angels to sing over it, …er…sat down and took the time and effort to work with all the scary science and do things right rather than doing them so they fit a look or met a price point. Comparable (and I use that term very loosely) cabs will cost you around 1000 bucks or more, so this is looking like a bargain rather than an extravagance. Its ALL about the details and science…so if someone makes something that doesn’t pay attention to those? Whelp, I don’t see much point. But then not everyone wants a light weight cab that can put out very clean clear tone in a much wider tonal spectrum with deeper lows than production cabs. They probably don’t want a cab that HONESTLY can take 800w without flinching, that you can hear from any point on the stage and do so without coloring what your bass and amps are outputting. And that’s fine. The rest of the commercial bass amplification world is out there to serve you.

[Ukiah Bass]

I posted these elsewhere. All in jest, of course. Green Boy deserves his praise. Nevertheless, let it be written:

One. Thou shall have no other cabs before me.

Two. Thou shall not build carved images in my name and call them fEARful.

Three. Thou shall not blaspheme fEARful by adorning this sacred name on any cab not fully compliant with Official Specifications.

Four. For bass players, every day you play is holy so I command you to perpetually worship the sonic propulsion of low tone by never ever using any cab but a fEARful.

Five. Honor your father fEARful (15/6/1) and mother fEARful (12/6/1), for these formats are progenitors of diverse fEARchildren used throughout bassdom.

Six. Thou shall not kill fEARful Official Specifications with bastardized form factors such as round ports in lieu of the sacred full-shelf port. Beware false prophets who proclaim the virtue of a grill covering the entire front side of a cab to keep the critters out; they will lead you astray.

Seven. Thou shall not commit adultery by posting positive comments on TalkBass about a nEarful, for verily it is an unspeakable sin to deprive a single soul the superior audio performance of a fEARful (see Commandment Nine).

Eight. Thou shall not steal. It’s only a fEARful if it precisely follows every specification. (Older fEARful models built with retired specifications or out-of-production components are exempt from this commandment.)

Nine. Thou shall not bear false witness by claiming a nEarful sounds the same as a fEARful. Verily, while such claims are true to the naked ear (especially for drinkers, smokers, and pill-popping dancers rockin’ out in a slammin’ loud nightclub), verification may be possible by professional audio experts operating in a state-of-the-art mastering studio.

Ten. Thou shall not covet professionally built nEarfuls, such as by Low Down Sound, BEARFACED Cabs, LoPHAT, or Avatar. Whilst these quality products may offer a superior appearance to the “rugged” aura of most home-built cabs, I command you to remember always: nothing beats a self-built fEARful (see Commandment Nine).