Is it necessary to have a Full tube amp?

[bigmoosepi]

pre-amp is the cake.


power amp is the icing.


You don't need it, but it's nice.

[Klonk]

Originally Posted by bigmoosepi

pre-amp is the cake.


power amp is the icing.


You don't need it, but it's nice.

Mmmm... cake.... I like the way you're thinking, mister!

I have tried SS, hybrid and all-tube, and currently I'm stuck with a SVT-VR with the 810AV cab, and for rehearsals outside my own (400 sq feet) garage/shed I use a Fender Pawn Shop Excelsior amp (13 watt guitar tube combo with a 15" speaker, weight 33 pounds/15 kgs) which I've come to really like the tone from. So I guess I'm a tube guy!

Agree with previous poster(s) who say that "feel" and "tone" is important when playing, the disadvantage being that both these factors are highly subjective

[jnewmark]

Well I'm not much of a lifelong tube amp guy, started out back in the '60's using one because that's what was available. Mostly have used SS amps and continue to do so, but I have found a compromise that I use occaisionaly, and it's the MusicMan HD 150. A SS preamp, with 4 6L6 power tubes, weighs about 45 lbs, which is manageable for this 64 year old bass player. Loud as f@#$, and sounds great with my old JBL loaded 215. It sure does sound like a tube amp to me, but I'm no expert. However, I have found nothing that sounds quite like a '67 Ampeg B15N; it just seems to sound so unique to me.

[Mr. Foxen]

Valve power section is the best bit of valve amps. Given the choice of a SS pre and valve power, or valve pre and ss power, I'd go for the SS pre, because the power section is the bit I want. My cabs give the volume I need, SS gives better control in terms of tone shaping, and I have a pretty good idea of what I want to sound like, the valve power section foes a whole bunch of things subtly enough to not get in your face and make things seem a bit better (which is bandwidth limiting, compression and harmonic distortion, in a very musical way, in practice that is 'firth' and 'bigness' of the sound).

The main advantage of a valve preamp is if you want nasty braying distortion, which can be done with a pedal, and in the fact the standard passive eq that comes with them barely functions as such, so you can't mess up your tone eqing by eye, because knob positions don't matter nearly as much as +/_15db of eq you get on SS amp.

Main thing is don't fuss too much over power, get a small valve amp, and nicer cabs, less to lug, more of what is important.

[Russell L]

I play a V4 sometimes, but my Little Mark III sounds good enough to me without having to haul a heavy amp and keep it up. Just me.

[4-string]

I don't believe for a second that any of us could determine the type of poweramp in a test, with the possible exception of a class D pushed way over the edge/into clipping.

Unless you need or at least want an all tube head, anything else than micros make little sense IMO.

[Baird6869]

Originally Posted by klokker

Really. Anyone who says that tubes are the only way to go doesn't know anything about amps. Some people like tube warmth and some don't. But to say its the only way to go is just ridiculous.

+1.

I do agree that a tube PREAMP can make a difference (not necessarily a pre with a single 12AX7), but IMO a tube poweramp does not make much of a difference over a SS.

As an example, I extensively ABed the tube power section of a Mesa D180 (lots of tubes) against my Crest ProLite 2.0 (SS) with the same tube pre and found very little tonal difference.

YMMV, but IMO... After owning SVTs and other tube amps, a full tube pre with a quality SS poweramp with the right level of power to properly drive a top quality cab or two is great sounding and as "tubey" as most envision from a top tube amp setup.

[4-string]

And the correct answer to the OP's initial question is no.

[Mr. Foxen]

Also to bear in mind is that all tube power sections aren't the same. There are a bunch of ways of making them work, and they all have differences.

[kdogg]

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

No. Why would you think that? They're heavy, temperamental, expensive to maintain and, in a gigging situation, they don't offer any tonal benefits over amps with solid-state power sections. I prefer the sound of a high-powered hybrid or solid-state amp by far over tube amps.

Tube amps do tend to be pretty heavy. My old SVT fell somewhere in the 90ish pound range. I don't get the temperamental comment at all though. I gigged my SVT for 2 years without issue, in and out of a cold trailer, bars with crappy power outlets, and all. Just plug and play.

Other than having to retube the amp, which can be expensive, I never had any expensive maintenance issues either. How would having a resistor replaced or speaker jack repaired be more expensive to fix on a tube amp than on a solid state?

[bikeplate]

I like both. If I'm playing a dance band type gig where I might slap some, I take my SS amp. If I'm doing rock finger style and pick playing, tube amp for sure

[Mr. Foxen]

Originally Posted by kdogg

Tube amps do tend to be pretty heavy. My old SVT fell somewhere in the 90ish pound range. I don't get the temperamental comment at all though. I gigged my SVT for 2 years without issue, in and out of a cold trailer, bars with crappy power outlets, and all. Just plug and play.

Other than having to retube the amp, which can be expensive, I never had any expensive maintenance issues either. How would having a resistor replaced or speaker jack repaired be more expensive to fix on a tube amp than on a solid state?

Tube amps are less fussy on bad power, but more fussy on bad handling. Only one of those is the fault of the user. Replacing stuff in an Ampeg might be more expensive, because they are a massive pain in the nuts to work on, but sensibly made valve amps will tend to be more durable than them, and easier to work on than a typical SS amp. This is coming from being a guy who fixes amps. Problem is when comparing, you wend up comparing the cheapest made valve amps to medium to high quality SS ones due to relative pricing, and branding.

[StrangerDanger]

For me, the answer to the question is YES.

If you're anything like me, you will spend years and thousands of dollars chasing a sound that can't be achieved any other way. Ampegs are great and so are the new Fender Bassman Pro Series.

Once you go all tube, you'll know why you did.

[Baird6869]

I would LOVE for someone one to post blind clips of a SVT-CL head vs. a SVP-CL preamp paired with an appropriate SS poweramp (Crown, Crest, QSC, etc.).

I honestly think many bassists believe tube power amps affect tone much more than they really do.

[Pilgrim]

Is it necessary to have a Full tube amp?

No. Nothing like this is "necessary", unless you WANT one, in which case it's your money and your preference. Most of us don't buy what we need, we buy what we want.

Personally, I have never felt that tube vs. solid state mattered. I listen to the amp and if I like it, it's fine with me.

I've played full tube amps and solid state. Currently I have a Genz-Benz Shuttle 6.0 with tube pre-amp, and it's a great blend of technologies and sound.

[SteveC]

It's not necessary to have any tubes. I have never had tube power, and only occasionally tube pre. I go DI right now (Radial JDI) and use IEM's and couldn't be happier with my sound.

My sound is fantastic and I carry a Pedaltrain Nano and my gig bag.

[JBNeedsBeer]

I would never say all tube is necessary. I definitely would say that any bassist who doesn't at least try out an all tube rig once is missing out on a cool experience. Tube rigs have their pros and cons that you can find all over this board. For me, I decided to lug around my heavy Mesa 400+ now while I still have a back capable of doing so. There is nothing quite like a full tube rig, but it definitely isn't something everyone needs. I would not reccomend that you get a tube amp until you upgrade from the Hartke cab.

[mhandley16]

Thanks for the input everyone. Lots of this stuff is exactly what I was thinking I just wanted to hear it from fellow TB'ers

[AuntieBeeb]

Originally Posted by bikeplate

I like both. If I'm playing a dance band type gig where I might slap some, I take my SS amp. If I'm doing rock finger style and pick playing, tube amp for sure

This is an important consideration, actually - what sort of music will you be playing with this hypothetical amp? If you're playing a lot of funk or fusion, you might find a SS better for contouring and clarity.

However if, like me, you find you barely use the EQ and just want some warmth and growl out of the amp, you can probably justify a tube amp. All tube or hybrid, I don't know, I've never compared the two. All I know is that I want the Mesa tube amp I tested my last bass purchase through in the shop!

[Cycho]

I'm getting my choice of several warm tube-like sounds from my ss rig using a Zoom B3. As the years go by I expect these emulations to just keep getting better. I think the only thing you can get with tubes which you can never get with ss is microphonics. Transistors just don't respond to shaking!