Is it necessary to have a Full tube amp?

[dave64o]

I'd bet my house that, in a blind test, your friend would fail to correctly identify tube or solid state amps the vast majority of the time. Seems like that's always the result for for most people when accepting that kind of challenge. Certainly some people CAN consistently tell them apart but, from what I've seen here and on other forums, most people fail most of the time in that kind of test, regardless of the "topic". The funny thing is that you always see the same kinds of excuses time after time, too.

Sound is obviously one factor in buying an amp, and it's an important one, but there are lots of factors to consider as well. Even the "best" amp is going to be a mix of compromises of all those various criteria. Pick the amp that's the best mix of all those criteria for you and then play the hell out of it, regardless what anyone else tells you. Especially know-it-all friends!

[smogg]

Originally Posted by mhandley16

What I mean by this is a full tube preamp and full tube power section. I will be upgrading my current set up soon to a better amp and cab to get more power and a bigger/better sound. A friend of mine plays through an Ampeg SVT-CL and I know that this is one of the best amps out there. But he pretty much told me that full tube amps are the only way to go. I know that I have to try them myself to see how they go with my sound but sometimes it's as if people think Ampeg is the only way to go and that amps that aren't full tube just plain suck. Maybe I just haven't owned one yet. What are your opinions?

You can achieve this goal by simply adding another identical cab to your set up. It will let your amp run a full power and you gain volume and presence by doubling your cone area. And not to mention you save yourself some cash.

Now if you absolutely hate your tone, well then go have some fun and try out all you can.

[mhandley16]

Originally Posted by smogg

You can achieve this goal by simply adding another identical cab to your set up. It will let your amp run a full power and you gain volume and presence by doubling your cone area. And not to mention you save yourself some cash.

Now if you absolutely hate your tone, well then go have some fun and try out all you can.

I was thinking about that too. I really don't have a problem with my amp but I would like a 4 ohm cab to get full power. For now, I may just upgrade my cab to save myself some money.

[smogg]

Originally Posted by mhandley16

I was thinking about that too. I really don't have a problem with my amp but I would like a 4 ohm cab to get full power. For now, I may just upgrade my cab to save myself some money.

IMO/IME Unless you plan to upgrade to a really high end 4 ohm (410?) cab, you will probably gain more and spend much less by just picking up another 410 TP. I see deals on 410 XL's all the time. But, If you go that route put the TP on top as it will run out of excursion quicker than its big brother. The XL will also give you a little more heft in the low end compared to the TP.

[Russell L]

I played my friend's vintage Ampeg V4 with a vintage Ampeg 810 AT A GIG and it didn't sound any "better" than my Markbass Little Mark III head and dual Markbass151P cabs. IMO.

[Mr. Foxen]

Originally Posted by Baird6869

I would LOVE for someone one to post blind clips of a SVT-CL head vs. a SVP-CL preamp paired with an appropriate SS poweramp (Crown, Crest, QSC, etc.).

If digitised samples of a typical SVT is what you base your tone on, might as well go Line 6. Its has to be the most popular tone to cop digitally, so the homework has been done.

[I am Soma]

As you will see by the responses there are lots of opinions. You'll find varying views on the same amp, cabs (matching vs mixing), etc. I've used so many rigs its ridiculous but I always come back to my TC Electronic RH450 with an RS212 and RS210 - great as is, but add a Micro Pog and Darkglass B3K and it sounds like a ton of bricks

[seamonkey]

Originally Posted by mhandley16

What I mean by this is a full tube preamp and full tube power section. I will be upgrading my current set up soon to a better amp and cab to get more power and a bigger/better sound. A friend of mine plays through an Ampeg SVT-CL and I know that this is one of the best amps out there. But he pretty much told me that full tube amps are the only way to go. I know that I have to try them myself to see how they go with my sound but sometimes it's as if people think Ampeg is the only way to go and that amps that aren't full tube just plain suck. Maybe I just haven't owned one yet. What are your opinions?

No - not needed.

Look at the schematic of an SVT, there are diodes in the signal path. Marshall and other amps did this. Diodes do soft clipping. AFAIK - no one has every measured it. They start to break over at .6v which isn't much for a power amp section.

Ampeg SVX models down to the component level. If there's behavior of these diodes in the signal path, then it's in the modeling.

Profiling like Kemper pick this up also through brute force profiling.

If you need more power, and more cones, then FOH has got the formula down. FOH is more efficient, and smaller in the venue than ever before. Give FOH a good signal and they'll make it louder.

[Mr. Foxen]

Does the classic original SVT had signal path diodes. My amps don't but they are quite a lot higher end than an SVT.

[BbbyBld]

Is it necessary for drummers to use acoustic kits?

Is it necessary for key players to use real Hammond B-3's and real Rhodes pianos?

Is it necessary for guitars to be made out of wood?

Is it necessary to have an all tube amp? Absolutely, if that's the playing feel you're looking for. It's not just about the "tone". You can't record a tube head and a preamp and A/B the sound. You have to actually be there in the room to FEEL the difference.

Live, in a mix, makes you really understand the difference. Some people don't get it, and that's fine. Some of us poor bastards do get it and we're hooked for life.

[BassmanPaul]

To answer the OP title: necessary NO,
Fun: yes if you can manage the weight.
Better than SS: no.

When I started out the average amp was a 15W, if you were lucky, tube amp driving cheap "radio" speakers. I used tube amps for the first half of my career ending with a 150W monster of my own design. Then I started using SS and built a 200W @ 2Ω per channel dual mono system that weighed as much as the tube amp it replaced. i've not used a tube output stage since then.

I own several tube amps including a B15, Hiwatt DR201. KT88 version, and some of my own design. i'll not gig a full tube amp again. That said I do like to have a tube in the chain somewhere. My goto amp is a tube pre-amp I designed into a Class D power amp. #2 is a Carvin BX1500 contains a tube. #3 an ART Tube Channel 259 pre into a Mackie lead sled power amp. The ART contains tubes.

I suggest that you go forth and try every amp you can find, whatever the configuration, until you find the one that makes you smile. Don't get hung up on the tube/SS issue. In the long run it's you that the amp has to please and no one else.

May I wish you luck with your search.

[VanillaThundah]

Ok well no certain type of gear is necessary or REQUIRED in all gigging situations. I fall in the same camp as JimmyM in that I LOOOOOVE all-tubers (especially ampeg), but that may not be the best choice for every situation.

Loud rock gig with a crazy drummer and two guitarists with full stacks? Yes, the SVT-CL and 810 would be a good choice for this gig if you want to be heard and have good tone.

Smooth jazz gig in a coffee house that seats about 20-40 ppl? Probably need to leave the all-tube monster rig at home.


While the SVT might not be right for that coffee house gig, an all-tube Ampeg B15 might be the perfect option for that setting. Tone is subjective and that's really all there is to that argument, either it does it for you or it doesn't. Try the different amps, but a good practice that a lot of tube enthusiasts prefer is to save the all-tuber for the big gigs and get a nice SS mini rig or combo to play the smaller stuff with. If you can afford an SVT stack AND a B15 then by all means go for it...but I will hate you for having both

[73jbass]

I'm probably one of the few here that has never owned a tube amp. Too heavy,and to my ear not that much better sounding than my Thunderfunk. Tubes? NAH!

[SactoBass]

Originally Posted by Mr. Foxen

Also to bear in mind is that all tube power sections aren't the same. There are a bunch of ways of making them work, and they all have differences.

So very true!

I have owned a number of different bass amps with tube power sections (SVT-CL, SVT-VR, Aguilar DB680/728, Mesa Buster 200, Reeves 225, SVT-II non-pro), and they all sound quite different from each other (although the SVT-VR and the SVT-II non-pro sound the same to my ears, and oh what a lovely sound!)

I love that sweet sound of slight power tube saturation with those yummy even-order harmonics. mmmmmm good! None of my solid state amps ever gave me that.

...and then, there is that "feel"......difficult to describe.....but it's as if the notes just jump off of the fretboard. It's addicting.

IMO/IME/YMMV, etc etc.

[SactoBass]

Originally Posted by StrangerDanger

If you're anything like me, you will spend years and thousands of dollars chasing a sound that can't be achieved any other way.

That's what happened to me! It only took 40 years! (and many thousands of dollars).

But, it's all good.

I'm actually glad that different people like different things. The last place I would want to exist is where everyone liked the same thing. That would be a freakish science fiction world that I wouldn't want to live in. So thank goodness for different preferences, and for so many different bass gear choices for us bassists!

[SactoBass]

Originally Posted by bikeplate

I like both. If I'm playing a dance band type gig where I might slap some, I take my SS amp. If I'm doing rock finger style and pick playing, tube amp for sure

That makes complete sense to me! (I'm not a slapper, but I agree with Bikeplate).

[Sid Fang]

The only reason I can see for using tube amps at all is that one likes tube distortion (even if it's so mild that you only think of it as "character"). The distortion one gets from overdriving a tube power stage is qualitatively a bit different from the distortion one gets from overdriving a pre-amp tube. This is most noticeable in guitar amps, where clipping a tube power stage sounds really glorious for blues leads, etc. I don't think I've ever driven the power stage of my SVT to that point, but if you want that particular kind of character - and you might, for hard rock bass - then maybe, yes, you need a tube power stage. But you're chaining yourself to a lot of heavy iron (literally), so you'd better really want it.

[SactoBass]

Originally Posted by Sid Fang

The distortion one gets from overdriving a tube power stage is qualitatively a bit different from the distortion one gets from overdriving a pre-amp tube.

So very true! I'm not a fan of preamp tube breakup. It sounds too "buzzy" for my ears. Power tube breakup is in an entirely different sonic ballpark, IMO. And those heavy iron transformers play a role as well.

Originally Posted by Sid Fang

But you're chaining yourself to a lot of heavy iron (literally), so you'd better really want it.

+1

I do not like the weight (ugh!). But it's a choice I make for that tone and feel that I prefer.

[Mr. Foxen]

Less watts, more cab, is the way to not have all the heavy iron, although bigger is better, the point of high power valve amps was less distortion.

[StrangerDanger]

The answer to the OP's question is another question:
"Is close enough good enough for you? Or do you require the real thing?"

Comparing SS tube emulation to an all tube amp is akin to comparing Rosie Palm to . . . well Rosie!