Need Advice on an Amp (First-timer)

GuitaristSB · #1 08-25-2010, 01:44 PM

Hi guys,

I have been a guitarist for years now, but I'm just starting up on the bass and playing with some friends gigging around our college. I have a Fender Jazz Bass that I put together a little while ago now. My question is this:

I'm looking for a tone that resembles bands like: LCD Soundsystem, Hot Chip, The Bravery, Cake. We are playing danceable indie with a drummer and a and two kids up front running midi-keys and ableton setups. My budget runs up to about $600, but I would love to keep it between the $200-$400 range.

I have been looking at the Ampeg BA115 and played one in two different shops and is had the same hissing sound even at low volumes. I don't know if you guys have ever played one, but that second style setting on the amp is my ideal tone. The hiss is just killing me and it would drive me crazy both in practice and during shows. I liked the Fender Rumble 350 and liked it (not as much as the Ampeg), but I don't need all of those gain and "scoop" features.

Will this be loud enough to have enough headroom in a live mix? I figured 200-300 watts would probably be good enough for a medium sized venue.

Thanks,
Sam

Jim Carr · #2 08-25-2010, 02:49 PM

Welcome to Talkbass!

In my humble opinion, a combo amp like those you mention (head and cab in one bulky package), is attractive for its simplicity and seemingly lower cost, but is the wrong way to go. I also don't think it is adequate for medium-sized venues with a typical 4 piece band.

I would look for separate cabinet and head units, and I would most definately buy used gear. If you are in the US (need more info in your profile, btw), Craigslist.org is a good place to look, and of course check Talkbass classified.

Using TB classified, I have found three superb Epifani cabinets, a tube preamp, an EBS compressor, a Genz Benz Shuttle 6.0 600 watt head, and most recently an incredible Mesa Boogie Carbine M9 900 watt head. All the TB prices were better than anything on ebay.

Stay tuned, as I would bet you will get a number of suggestions in this thread, but you should also just read other threads and do a little follow-up searching.

My amp advice is that if you can budget around $850, you will avoid having to replace your combo due to frustration with its performance in a year or so. Going on the cheap is ultimately more expensive in the bass amp department, in my experience. Spend $450 now and $850 in the future vs. $850 now. The hard part is gathering the info, saving the money, and then locating the head and cab you want used. It takes more effort, but really pays off, IMHO.

Don't overlook the advantage of being able to more easily upgrade a modular rig. With a combo, you are somewhat stuck with the head. Also combos are essentially harder to transport and carry. Finally, when modular rigs fail, only part of the whole needs to be sent to the shop.

Here are threads you may find useful:

Gig's with a combo?
Best Portable Amp for a Student? BG and/or DB...
Combo Bass Amp options ($300-450)

PurpleDrank · #3 08-25-2010, 03:09 PM

Hi Sam,

I dig pretty much all of those bands, and each one has a kind of different thing going for the bass. LCD Soundsystem, especially the first record sound a lot like a real low powered tube amp (like a B15 or something, but I heard somewhere he actually used a Vox AC30 to track the bass, don't know how true that is). I have no idea what they are using live. The rest of them kind of have the light OD to pure clean of a larger tube rig (SVT, etc).

I think for the sound you are shooting for, you are closer with the Ampeg than the Rumble. Personally I used a Rumble 60 for a while and it was an alright practice amp, but the tone wasn't all there. Of the two I'd grab the BA115 and stick a VT bass in front of it. Should get you where you want to go with the sound.

As for wattage, I've found 300W is generally enough for most shows, but if the two guys on sequencers/synths are in your frequencies all the time, you will probably need reinforcement to be felt more than heard. The BA115 has a pretty decent DI from my experience, but the 100W by itself probably won't cut it without help from FOH. If I was in your situation, I'd probably go for something super cheap (used if possible) with 300W or more and decent speakers, stick a BDDI or similar in front of it and you've got enough juice to go without FOH or you have a good DI if you need FOH.

Hope this helps.

-PD

mcdisease · #4 08-25-2010, 03:22 PM

I agree with PurpleDrank, most of the bands you're going for probably use something like an SVT. I have an Ampeg B-100R that I use at smaller gigs. It's probably passable for what you're looking to do, although it doesn't really sound anything like my SVT rig. Probably would do better with the B-200R though.

80'sRocker · #5 08-25-2010, 03:27 PM

IMO, trying to dupe another players recorded sound is very hard to achieve. You may get close but go for your own sound. 1/2 of the sound is in one's own fingers/hand (attack, bass used, textures etc.). Good luck!

BbbyBld · #6 08-25-2010, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Will this be loud enough to have enough headroom in a live mix? I figured 200-300 watts would probably be good enough for a medium sized venue.

You're talking about a high energy style in clubs. You're going to need some stage volume. I don't think 200-300 is enough if you're set on solid state amps.

I'm a huge fan of that style like LCD, Chk Chk Chk, The Rapture, etc...

If you wanna do the indie disco punk thing, do yourself a favor and get a tube head with a good 410 or 810. There may be other ways to get a similar sound, but a tube rig is the no compromise, perfect thing for that style, I promise!

PurpleDrank · #7 08-25-2010, 04:26 PM

For the record, I'm a big fan of big stage volume with this style. Go see the Faint and you'll see what I mean. SVT ->810 on each side of the stage, as two guitarists each alternate on bass too.

@ 80'sRocker, I don't think the OP is trying to cop a recorded tone necessarily, just trying to get in the ballpark of the genre. I agree with you, though that it's mostly in the fingers.

RickenBoogie · #8 08-25-2010, 04:55 PM

Important to note, stage volume is not achieved with wattage, but rather with multiple speakers. 300 watts through 8 10's is LOUD, whereas those same 300 watts through a single 15 is not nearly loud enough. Consider upping the budget, look for used gear, and forget about combo amps. Their appeal is price and "all-in-one-ness", but they are in fact a waste of money. A seperate 300+ watt head paired with a good 4x10 will make you happy, and more importantly, heard.

JimmyM · #9 08-25-2010, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickenBoogie

Important to note, stage volume is not achieved with wattage, but rather with multiple speakers. 300 watts through 8 10's is LOUD, whereas those same 300 watts through a single 15 is not nearly loud enough. Consider upping the budget, look for used gear, and forget about combo amps. Their appeal is price and "all-in-one-ness", but they are in fact a waste of money. A seperate 300+ watt head paired with a good 4x10 will make you happy, and more importantly, heard.

+1 on all counts. used your dollar goes a lot farther, and it makes it possible to get a giggable rig that you don't have to worry about it straining. get a decent used head that will do 300w and a 410, then let your fingers take over. i have heard some combos that will, in fact, handle the job, but they're always more expensive than $600.