Need Advice On Miking My SVT 8x10

PolkaHero · #1 09-27-2011, 07:47 PM

My bandleader called me tonight and was wondering if there would be an advantage to miking my 8x10 vs. running a direct out from my SVT. I've never miked a speaker cabinet before for bass, what do you guys think? Any advantages vs. running direct? If so, what specific mikes would you recommend? I was thinking a bass drum mike, but he was concerned about one of those lacking high end. Would a SM-57 be sufficient? Thanks!

Jayson · #2 09-27-2011, 08:19 PM

BASS CABS- the ONE thing that an SM-57 really shouldn't be micing.

I mean, the Shure is in every other situation a catch-all, but really, kick mics are standard for bass cabs. The Shure Beta 52A will give you a mighty fine sound. It's my favorite conventional mic.

Really there's a lot of virtue to either a DI or a mic. It depends what you like better. I tend to like the air that a mic adds to my sound, and my tone doesn't have a lot of high-end to it. Most of the time you want a DI if you want to focus on lows, but I find I get better, more natural sounding results if I mic my cab. But DI is used more often, by far, and most people swear by it.

You'll have to try both for yourself, but my opinion on one thing is solid- a kick mic is your best option for miking.

rodl2005 · #3 09-27-2011, 08:44 PM

I find 57's work rather well for bass, as long as you aren't expecting lots of lows. eg- last time I used a 57 it was micing a NV610 & worked fine.
So would be similar if micing an SVT 810.
I agree, not the best, but ime, work fine, especially if used with a DI'd line also.
I haven't used a Beta 52 enough to say, but have used one a while back.
Last time I mic'd my cab, a Sennheiser 421(???) was used.

Remus_Redbone · #4 09-27-2011, 08:49 PM

I use an AKG D112 kick drum mic centered on the dust cover of one of the upper four speakers of my 810. It seems to be cleaner on one of the upper speakers vs. one of the lower (which could be all in my head). I much prefer miking over direct so the changes I make in volume or effects I hear on stage is being picked up by the mic. There are ways to do this going direct, but sticking a mic on the cab is simple and fast. I also take a much smaller rig to some gigs and let the PA do more of the work by sticking a mic on the smaller rig.

paganjack · #5 09-27-2011, 08:52 PM

Is this for live sound or recording? I know lots of people use a DI/ SM57 for their recording setup (myself included) and it works pretty well. I do some post processing on the bass sound anyway, but I love having the cab and and the amp mixed in. It's a popular choice in studio work as well.
Others will have more elaborate mic choices, from kick drum mics (e.g. AKG D112, Audix D4, Shure Beta 52A) to studio quality dynamic mics (e.g. RE-20). It kinda depends on the sound you are after, your budget etc. etc.

coreyfyfe · #6 09-27-2011, 09:10 PM

I use an Heil PR40 on my 8x10 for live and recording purposes. With my effects setup, a DI signal would have too much high frequency content that the 8x10 cab naturally rolls off and softens. I don't like using kick mics on a bass amp. I have in the past and it was fine, but I feel like there are much better options - even an SM57 is better IMO. I've found that kick mics (especially the D112) just lack clarity with bass, you get floppy lows and some highs, but an overall uneven sound.

Timi · #7 09-27-2011, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jayson

BASS CABS- the ONE thing that an SM-57 really shouldn't be micing.

Each to their own but I couldn't disagree more, and I own MD421s, RE20s ect.

will33 · #8 09-27-2011, 09:17 PM

Watch it using kick drum mics on bass cabs live. A lot of them are mid scooped, some more than others. Any decent, fairly "unvoiced" mic that can take some spl will work fine. Actually a 57 will work pretty good if your rig isn't cranked up loud to where it's overdriving the mic. Don't worry about catching the deepest lows, those should be taken out of a live bass mix anyway to slot it just above the kick drum, a 57 will kinda do that on it's own. The heil, re20, etc. are the really good stuff.

Jayson · #9 09-27-2011, 09:22 PM

Whatever mic suits your tone, I'd say that speaker placement is pretty individual to your cab- mess around with it. My cab only has one fifteen inch speaker, so it's pretty easy for me

skarspastahair · #10 09-27-2011, 09:29 PM

I would combine both mic and direct signal. I have been using a Sennheiser 421for bass cabs but I haven't used many mics.

I'm also coming more from a recording perspective but it's very personal, everyone will do it differently.

johnk_10 · #11 09-27-2011, 09:36 PM

i've used SM57's lots of times mic'ing bass cabs and they work great. a 421 or an RE20 are a bit better, but i'd never use a kick mic. against my better judgement, i once tried my Beta52A and my AKG d112, and they sounded like mud with just a little sizzle on top. IMO, a beta 52A is a good kick mic due to it having a preset scooped response, but IMO, completely inappropriate for mic'ing a bass cab.

boethius · #12 09-27-2011, 09:40 PM

I have used combinations of Sennheiser 421's and SM57's for years. I stopped carting around 8x10s a while back and went to a 2x12 and a 2x10 under my SVT. I use the SM57 on the 2x10 and the 421 on the 2x12 both with the horns off. The SM57 picks up the transient attack and the mids and highs well and the 421 picks up the fullness and depth of the tone. If I have to choose 1 due to limited channels, I go with the 421. Just what works for me...hope it helps

will33 · #13 09-27-2011, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PolkaHero

My bandleader called me tonight and was wondering if there would be an advantage to miking my 8x10 vs. running a direct out from my SVT. I've never miked a speaker cabinet before for bass, what do you guys think? Any advantages vs. running direct? If so, what specific mikes would you recommend? I was thinking a bass drum mike, but he was concerned about one of those lacking high end. Would a SM-57 be sufficient? Thanks!

Reading over this agsin, if given the choice, I'd take the 57 over a kickdrum mic everytime. As long as you're not cranking the hell out of the rig, which you shouldn't be for stage volume unless it's a huge outdoor festival stage, it'll sound good. Again, the 57 will sort of filter out the deepest of deep, which you want in a live mix anyway. The kick drum mics are scooped to help a kick drum not sound boxy, they'll also suck the definition/clarity/tone out of a bass cab.

Jayson · #14 09-27-2011, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will33

Reading over this agsin, if given the choice, I'd take the 57 over a kickdrum mic everytime. As long as you're not cranking the hell out of the rig, which you shouldn't be for stage volume unless it's a huge outdoor festival stage, it'll sound good. Again, the 57 will sort of filter out the deepest of deep, which you want in a live mix anyway. The kick drum mics are scooped to help a kick drum not sound boxy, they'll also suck the definition/clarity/tone out of a bass cab.

I'd say this really depends on the tone you're going for. I feel like you can still avoid problem frequencies even with a kick mic.

PolkaHero · #15 09-27-2011, 10:14 PM

Thanks for the replies, guys! I would say the tone I'm going for is what's coming out of my 8x10! Sounds like these kick mics color the tone too much.

will33 · #16 09-27-2011, 10:54 PM

IMO, it's just that an easy way to keep definition in the bass and slot it well with the kick is to put a little bump, or at least no cut in the bass at the same frequency you pulled down to take the boxiness out of the kick. A 57 makes that easy, using a kick mic on the bass cab kind of negates that and makes for more knob twisting. Talking relatively simple live sound here without too many extraneous effects, etc.....not recording or some giant live sound system with a zillion channels and 48 different dedicated compressors, dsp, etc.

strke-fender · #17 09-27-2011, 10:58 PM

I don't care for the beta 52 in any regard.

I like RE-20s, 421s, D-112s for SVT's

I heard a pretty cool Sennheiser. Didn't catch the model.

JimmyM · #18 09-27-2011, 11:24 PM

If you mic with a 57 or 58, you may want to blend a second line DI'd with just the lows below 100 hz. They rock as cab mics on a budget, but they don't have much below 100, and it doesn't really matter if the lows come from a DI as long as the mic gets everything else.

But if you want to be able to use just a mic, these are my favorites, in order:

EV RE20
Heil PR40 about 2 inches away from the grill (my mic of choice until I get off my ass and get my RE20 fixed)
Sennheiser MD421
Beyer M88

I don't like kick mics because they're always too scooped. You can EQ mids back in, but I'd rather have a relatively flat response mic on a cab. Point it right in the middle of the driver so you get all the highs.

BTW, I listened briefly to a board tape of my gig tonight, and let me tell you, if any soundman ever tells me again that they want to run a DI on me instead, I will kick them square in the balls as hard as I can. You'd have to be an idiot to think it didn't sound completely awesome in every way.

Sartori · #19 09-27-2011, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timi

Each to their own but I couldn't disagree more, and I own MD421s, RE20s ect.

Agreed. The SM57 works fine if you're going for a more old school tone with a gradual roll-off of the lows. With the frequency response of the Ampeg 810, I'd think it would work very well.

Lots of people recommend kick drum microphones, but I don't really agree. Kick drum mics are often really uneven in the mids, often quite scooped, and that's where the meat of my sound is.

The SM57, on the other hand, has reasonably even response. The low end isn't as attenuated, either, if you stick it right up next to the grill.

If you've got the ability to get what you want as far as sound goes, mix the microphone with a DI off the back of the head and the soundperson can then have each signal.

NKBassman · #20 09-28-2011, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

BTW, I listened briefly to a board tape of my gig tonight, and let me tell you, if any soundman ever tells me again that they want to run a DI on me instead, I will kick them square in the balls as hard as I can. You'd have to be an idiot to think it didn't sound completely awesome in every way.

Using your P Lyte, Jimmy? And... more relavent to the discussion, which mic?

I've heard good results at the local clubs when competant sound guys are using an AKG D-112 on a bass cab, but I've never tried using one myself in any kind of controlled situation. One of the salesmen at Long & McQuade recommended the Beyerdynamic M99 (I think...). I'm pretty sure that's another kick mic, but he swore by it.

When I'm playing out I'm usually just happy to see the soundguy put ANY kind of mic on my cab, period. If he knows what he's doing and is in any way worth his salt as a sound guy, he'll make it sound good regardless of what's there.