Need advice for a new Cab

PhunkyChunky · #1 12-19-2012, 09:57 AM

Hi Folks,

I readed a lot on this forum during the last fews days about overpowering or underpowering a cab but i'm still a little bit mixed up so i'm asking you some advice on wich cab should i choose.

For the last 2 years i mostly played on an swr sm-900 with a Mark Bass Traveler 2x10 from one of my friend and i really loved the sound of his 2x10'' cabinet.

But i retried my own bass amp that i didnt use for many years and i felt in love another time with its sound.

Right now my own rig is an Eden WP-100 (Navigator pre-amp) plug into an Alto Mac 2.3 stereo power amp that deliver 310 watts RMS by channel in 8 ohms. My cab is an old Eden D115T but forget about the horn in it, it blew up over time when i was using this cab with an old Yamaha B100 head. This cab is rated at 200 watt RMS in 8 ohms.

I would like to get another cab for more mids and highs because with the 15'' i feel the bass a lot but sometimes i'm lacking definition to hear the note that i'm actually playing.

So i would like to buy a cheap but good sounding 2x10'' to use on the channel B of my power amp (bi-amped from the wp-100).

My friend proposed me to bought his old yorkville bc 210 for really cheap but it's rated at 300 watt PROGRAM so if i understand, it's only 150 watts RMS right? Maybe a little to low for my power?

So I was looking toward an ashdown mag 210 (rated at 250 watts RMS 8 ohms) or a GK MBE 210/8 (rated at 400 watts RMS 8 ohms)

So my question is: should i go with a higher rated cab to go with the 310 watts per channel power amp or a 250 watts will do the trick?

For now my Eden 15'', that is only 200 watts, sound amazing with this setup (i just have to be careful with the EQ and the power amp volume to avoid clipping). But i would like to get your opinion.

If you have other cab to suggest, i'm open to hear about it.

Thanks in advance!

Btw i would like to apologize for my english, i'm a french canadian.

**CL400Peavey** · #2 12-19-2012, 10:08 AM

I say ditch the cab you currently have and find one that you like the sound of by itself. Adding a 210 to a 115 is a crap shoot, you get more consistent results matching identical speakers.

If you are on a tight budget, I would be looking for a used cab. Start with what is locally available to you.

Gearhead17 · #3 12-19-2012, 11:48 AM

CL400Peavey - Listen to what he said.

Nearly any amp can be used with nearly any speaker. Just because a head/amp CAN put out 1000 watts, does not mean the head is ALWAYS putting out a 1000 watts. Listen to the speaker - if it is making farting sounds, distorting or sounding awful, reduce low end content below 150hz and lower the volume.

The open E string on your bass may be taking 300 watts, the open G string may only be taking 100 watts (just an example, nothing scientific here). More low end means more power needed to produce it. Music is dynamic and as you play, the amp will put out different wattage values to reproduce what you are doing. It is not a constant number.

Try some 210's out and see what you like. Use YOUR RIG AND YOUR BASS when you do this. You will know right away if it will work for you.

PhunkyChunky · #4 12-19-2012, 12:06 PM

Well the only problem that i have (and it's a big one), is that i'm like 10 to 12 hours away from a big city and music store around here doesnt have a lot of bass cab on hand (well maybe 1 bass cabinet in the entire town). So if i want to test it, i'll have to order and buy it.....and new cause there's not a lot of used sellers around here.

It was so easy when i lived in Montreal...... :'(

If i could, i would just buy an used 2x10 from Eden to match my cab but i'm not able to find one around here. I had a similar rig in the past and i loved it.

That's why i'm asking for advices and when i'll choose one, i'll just have to pray that it will sound good.

will33 · #5 12-19-2012, 12:24 PM

Try tilting your speaker back or setting it on a chair to point it at your ears first and see if there's enough mids/clarity for you. If so, another Eden 15 might be the answer.

It's harder to hear the topend and clarity from a single speaker sitting on the floor because those frequencies are more directional and are hitting you in the knees instead the ears. Sometimes just pointing it at your head is enough to hear better. In a tall stack, the top speakers are closer to your ears and this easier to hear.

**Chef** · #6 12-19-2012, 12:52 PM

If you want a 210 to go with your Eden 115, get the Eden 210 of the same series as your Eden115.

Tuned · #7 12-19-2012, 01:40 PM

Get that 15" cab off the floor and close to your torso. When it's on the floor you only get the wooly wash that only muddies the whole stage. Tilting helps, since everything over 800Hz beams in a straight line from a 15" speaker, passing by your legs, but the farther the cab is from your ribcage the more everyone else has to hear before you get what you need.

You'll benefit from this with a 2x10 just as much, so try it with your 15" cab first, then decide what you'd like to improve.

RickenBoogie · #8 12-19-2012, 02:13 PM

One reason you may think your 15 is not getting the frequencies you desire, is that the tweet is not working. But, don't assume 15's for lows, and 10's for mids and clarity. Full range bass cabs come in all shpes and sizes, and though they may all be voiced differently, they are all still "full range" bass cabs. I'd suggest fixing the broken tweet if you wish to keep the 15, then add another iodentical one, or dump it, and get 2 matched cabs of whatever flavor you wish. But as always, 2 of the exact same cab will always work better than a mixed pair.

Downunderwonder · #9 12-19-2012, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhunkyChunky

So i would like to buy a cheap but good sounding 2x10'' to use on the channel B of my power amp (bi-amped from the wp-100).

My friend proposed me to bought his old yorkville bc 210 for really cheap but it's rated at 300 watt PROGRAM so if i understand, it's only 150 watts RMS right? Maybe a little to low for my power?

.

Reading comprehension around here is worse than your English by a long way mate.

Biamping any of those 2x10 cabs is overkill, you could put a 6" mid driver in a little box on top of your amp to do the mids and upwards. Nearly all the power is used in the bass, same reason why we need 300W to keep up with a 30W guitar amp.

Give one of those 2x10 a go. You'll be dragging a lot of extra cab for no extra volume but it should give you what you're asking for very well.

craig.p · #10 12-19-2012, 02:18 PM

The 210 idea will work fine because you won't be mixing cabs in the same frequency range. (You'll be using the WP100's biamp feature.)

Gearhead's already addressed the power issue, so I won't.

zfunkman · #11 12-19-2012, 02:19 PM

I used to use to SWR 4x10 cabs; they were freakin' heavy! I switched to two Bag End 1x15s. One is a co-axel which has a 15" with a midrange speaker inside. Each cabinet weighs about 40 lbs. I normally run this with a SWR SM400. Rig sounds awsome. I'd definitely look into the Bag End co-axel.

**Chef** · #12 12-19-2012, 02:20 PM

Personally, I would skip the biamp feature.
Your Eden 15 isn't a sub, and the 210 cab won't be "a horn."

You're best off to run both cabs full range.

Downunderwonder · #13 12-19-2012, 02:28 PM

Because you're carrying two full size cabs to do the work of one.

Downunderwonder · #14 12-19-2012, 02:33 PM

You won't know until you try it but my prediction is you will be seduced by the extra boomf of two cabs full range, even though it will be mushy in the mids compared to the biamp.

Then you'll have to be careful about not overpowering one cab before the other. It would be good to have two cabs of similar power handling in that case but you have individual control with the stereo power amp. ( for the reading comprehension challenged members )

PhunkyChunky · #15 12-19-2012, 02:37 PM

So if i understand correctly, it would be better to use another 1x15'' on top of my own or buy two 2x10 cabinet or whatever i like from the same company?

If i do so, how many wattage should i look at considering my power amp? Since my power amp can take 8 (310 watts), 4 (450 watts) and 2 ohms (800 watts) in stereo, would it be more clever to buy 2 x 4 ohms enclosures instead of a 8 ohms?

BTW Chef, why are you bypassing the biamp option? Does it sound so terribly bad?

**Chef** · #16 12-19-2012, 02:38 PM

"why skip the biamp feature?"

the biamp feature presume you have one cab designed for lows, like say 200hz and below, and, a second cab for mids and highs.

Your 115 is not a sub/low range cab. It's a full range cab.
Any 210 you buy will also be a fullrange cab.

I mean, you can sure try it if you want, but, you're "not maximizing any of your gears design intentions."

The Navigator is a fine preamp, and sounds great in full range.
If you have cabinets to support biamping the way it's supposed to be done, you can get really great results from that.

In your case,m I think you'll get best results running fullrange.

Do as you wish though, maybe you'll really like your plan.

If your 115 is rated for 300 watts, you want to shop for a 210 in about that same power ange for their output to match well with each other; though you can control this with both the Navigator and power amps outputs.

Again, if it were me, doing what you're doing, I'd buy the Eden 210 that matches your 115.
Or, a matching 115.

"What's cheapest" is very seldom the best answer.

**Chef** · #17 12-19-2012, 02:44 PM

Your 115 is probably here:
http://www.eden-electronics.com/products/cabs/

Look at one of the 210's on this page.

PhunkyChunky · #18 12-19-2012, 02:53 PM

Quote:

"why skip the biamp feature?"

the biamp feature presume you have one cab designed for lows, like say 200hz and below, and, a second cab for mids and highs.

Your 115 is not a sub/low range cab. It's a full range cab.
Any 210 you buy will also be a fullrange cab.

I mean, you can sure try it if you want, but, you're "not maximizing any of your gears design intentions."

The Navigator is a fine preamp, and sounds great in full range.
If you have cabinets to support biamping the way it's supposed to be done, you can get really great results from that.

In your case,m I think you'll get best results running fullrange.

Do as you wish though, maybe you'll really like your plan.

Ok thanks, now i understand what you mean. And i think you're right.

Quote:

"What's cheapest" is very seldom the best answer.

Yeah i know, but when you're a gear addicted like me and you have to spend a lot of money on others type of instruments too (guitar, drum, keyboard and vintage synth), you always looks at the cheapest way first

craig.p · #19 12-19-2012, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chef

Personally, I would skip the biamp feature.
Your Eden 15 isn't a sub, and the 210 cab won't be "a horn."

You're best off to run both cabs full range.

Wrong.

The biamp feature should be used not because one cab's necessarily a better fit in a particular frequency range, but instead to keep them away from each other's throats within the same frequency range.

**Chef** · #20 12-19-2012, 02:57 PM

Craig, you're welcome to your take on that, of course.

If you think it's better to limit the "low cab," which was designed to run full range, to 200hz, and, limit "the high cab," which would also be a full range cab, to the range above that, bully for you.
I ran varying degrees of mixed cabs with good success for may years.
I run 3 different versions of 2x112 now.

This Mesa employee, from the same thread, has a different point of view that I more or less agree with:

Mixing Cabinets and Phase Response.