Need More Power

Gokhan91 · #1 11-17-2010, 04:24 AM

Hello guys I have a question for you. I play in a very loud band (2 guitar with marshalls) and I have a SWR SM-900 but I can't get loud enough. I need more power and I'm deciding to buy a QSC PLX1804 or Yamaha P7000S. I will use the SM as preamp.

My question is, does this power amps effect my sound & tone or just give me power?

Son of Bovril · #2 11-17-2010, 04:39 AM

the poweramp "shouldn't" change your sound or tone

More importantly though I can tell you that if you need more volume, you are better off getting a bigger cab/more cabs. The difference between the SM 900 and a bigger poweramp is not gonna give you a noticeable volume increase. Eq'ing more mids into your tone will also let you hear yourself and cut through the mix better

more speakers = more volume

sleepytime · #3 11-17-2010, 04:46 AM

Yeah, more speakers. What are you running now?

Lindsay · #4 11-17-2010, 04:47 AM

Short answer: just more power

A few years ago, I used an SWR ST220 as a pre powered by a QSC RMX 2450. Now I use a different pre and a PLX1804. The 1804 has beaucoup du headroom.

At outdoor gigs on large stages using 1 x 4ohm cab + 1 x 8 ohm cab, I rarely run the 1804 over 1 o'clock (both channels).

plangentmusic · #5 11-17-2010, 04:48 AM

For what it's worth, I've found SWR's to be notoriously under dosed, wattage -wise. I had a 300 watt SWR head that wasn't as loud as a GK 100 watt head.

They sound great in the music store though.

waleross · #6 11-17-2010, 05:14 AM

Loud Band = Ampeg, Mesa or one of the other monsters....

Implosion · #7 11-17-2010, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plangentmusic

For what it's worth, I've found SWR's to be notoriously under dosed, wattage -wise. I had a 300 watt SWR head that wasn't as loud as a GK 100 watt head.

They sound great in the music store though.

Didn't some SWR models lack a high pass filter thus perceiving them as inefficient?

craig.p · #8 11-17-2010, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gokhan91

I have a SWR SM-900 but I can't get loud enough.

What are you using for cabs and how/where are you placing them on stage? Also how are you running your EQ, including your BG if it's active?

bgavin · #9 11-17-2010, 06:53 AM

Add more speakers.

Do the math, most of the noise comes from the first 100 watts. It is a condition of rapidly diminishing returns above 100 watts.

The SM-900 is rated at 240w into 8 ohms, per side.
This means the amp will produce approximately 43 volts.

Each time you double the number of parallel speakers, you get +3dB for the increased power handling, and another +6db in the bottom end from mutual coupling.
All you have to do is plug in another cab.

To get another +6db by increasing the power, you have to jump from 240w / 8 ohms up to 960w.
This is wasted power, because your existing speaker system won't handle the increased power.

Doubling the speaker count increases power handling and reduces distortion over driving the snot out of your existing cabs.

Bassdirty · #10 11-17-2010, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craig.p

What are you using for cabs and how/where are you placing them on stage? Also how are you running your EQ, including your BG if it's active?

Yeah..without knowing what speakers you have...there is no answer.

If its a 110 , that could be the problem.

Is it 115?...that too most likely wouldnt be enough.

is it 210s?...310? 110 and 1x8?
5 12s?

2 810s?

you get my point.

Ideally, you want as much speaker area as possible...while maximizing your amps output.
(Its prolly 4 ohms)

So...maybe 2 (8 ohm)410 cabs would suffice.

.

warnergt · #11 11-17-2010, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gokhan91

I need more power and I'm deciding to buy a QSC PLX1804 or Yamaha P7000S. I will use the SM as preamp.

That Yamaha P7000S seems like a far better deal than the QSC PLX1804.
The Yamaha is comparable to the Crown XLS Drivecore in terms of power to price.

Unit / Max. power at 4 ohms / street price
QSC PLX1804 / 2x800W / $799.99
Yamaha P7000S / 3200W / $749.99
Crown XLS2500 Drivecore / 2400W / $599.00
Peavey IPR-3000 (availability uncertain) / 2x1000W / $399.99

billfitzmaurice · #12 11-17-2010, 07:14 AM

More power does no good whatsoever if your speakers can't make use of it.

Gokhan91 · #13 11-17-2010, 07:16 AM

I am using a 2x10 and 1x15 together. both are 8 ohms so I get 480 watts. I'm goingto buy a 4 ohm bergantino 4x10 and bridge it to get 900 watts. I use my eq settings nearly flat. If 4x10 bridged mode doesnt give me the volume I want, I will buy a PLX1804 and one more bergantino 4x10 to pair them and get 1600watts. Is this logical?

Bassmec · #14 11-17-2010, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gokhan91

I am using a 2x10 and 1x15 together. both are 8 ohms so I get 480 watts. I'm goingto buy a 4 ohm bergantino 4x10 and bridge it to get 900 watts. I use my eq settings nearly flat. If 4x10 bridged mode doesnt give me the volume I want, I will buy a PLX1804 and one more bergantino 4x10 to pair them and get 1600watts. Is this logical?

Yes but like Bill said adding four further 10's will make a significant Increase in level without upping the amp power
at all, I would say you would get about a 3dB increase from coupling effect.
Thats the same sort of level increase as doubling the power of your amp assuming your present speakers would handle it. NOT!

Son of Bovril · #15 11-17-2010, 07:51 AM

I have the smaller yamaha P2500S and although they give rated specs for it on their website, it DOES NOT bridge into 4 ohms so I doubt that the P7000S does either...

And like the guys are saying, what you are running now is similar to the output of a good 410, adding a berg 410 will be a big volume difference.

Idealy I'd sell off the smaller cabs and just get two berg 410 cabs. You don't need to get a bigger amp, the SM900 should be enough for plenty of volume with the bergs

warnergt · #16 11-17-2010, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Son of Bovril

I have the smaller yamaha P2500S and although they give rated specs for it on their website, it DOES NOT bridge into 4 ohms so I doubt that the P7000S does either...

The Yamaha website says both of those units bridge. The owners manual
says they bridge. The picture shows a "bridge" switch and the "bridge"
connection on the banana jacks on the back.
Something doesn't add up here.

Son of Bovril · #17 11-17-2010, 08:22 AM

they do all bridge but check the manual, you can only run them safely at 8 ohms bridged, even though all their advertising quotes the 4 ohm bridged power outputs...

I contacted them on the subject and got confusing results, some replies said it can run down to 4 ohms bridged and others said only 8 ohms. I tried 4 ohms bridged and it made a loud noise & blew a speaker... hence I don't advise it.

http://www2.yamaha.co.jp/manual/pdf/...S_en_om_e0.pdf

Gokhan91 · #18 11-17-2010, 08:28 AM

Whatever I'm not going to bridge yamaha. I'm going to bridge the SM-900 to berg 4x10. If I cant get the volume I want, I will buy the yamaha or qsc and buy 1 more berg to pair them. I can get 950w per side with 2 4x10 4 ohm bergs.

Son of Bovril · #19 11-17-2010, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gokhan91

Whatever I'm not going to bridge yamaha. I'm going to bridge the SM-900 to berg 4x10. If I cant get the volume I want, I will buy the yamaha or qsc and buy 1 more berg to pair them. I can get 950w per side with 2 4x10 4 ohm bergs.

Sounds great, I'm sure that will solve your volume issues. Ps. be careful of turning that aural enhancer up too much, on mine, past 12 o'clock starts cutting the mids

Gokhan91 · #20 11-17-2010, 08:36 AM

Suppose I bridged the SM-900 to berg 4x10 (4 ohm) and get rid of 2x10 & 1x15. Can I get a good volume increase? SM gives 240 watts per side at 8 ohm so I get 480 watts now. I will get 900 watt with berg bridged.