Need An Opinion For Those Who Also Play Guitar

Fajah · #1 04-25-2011, 06:20 AM

Once in a while, I've tried playing my guitar through my LMII/AE112. Personally, I don't much care for tone and stick to my Roland Cube 60 for all my jazz guitar playing. I know that there are some jazz guitarists using micro bass heads with guitar cabs.

I'm thinking of trying to use my AE112 as an extension cab for my Cube 60. Should I be concerned about anything? Do I risk any kind of damage to the Berg's speaker and/or tweeter?

Thanks in advance

lowfreq33 · #2 04-25-2011, 06:29 AM

Should be no risk of damage, but you probably won't like the sound with the tweeter on.

Fajah · #3 04-25-2011, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowfreq33

Should be no risk of damage, but you probably won't like the sound with the tweeter on.

Thanks for the quick reply. I was planning to turn the tweeter off. In searching around, I believe I read that the tweeter could be damaged from the guitars higher frequencies.

RickenBoogie · #4 04-25-2011, 12:03 PM

It's always best to keep separate rigs for bass/guitar. I "dabble" on 6 string, and use a Fender Blues Jr with it. There are tons of great inexpensive guitar amps.

Corey Y · #5 04-25-2011, 12:23 PM

The only technical issues you need be concerned about regarding mixing bass and guitar equipment is power handling and impedance. If you're not mismatching or overloading anything you don't have anything to worry about as far as damaging equipment. Whether or not you find the tone satisfying is another issue. I play both bass and guitar through my Sound City (B120) and Traynor (YBA-1) heads as well as my Ampeg (810) and Marshall (412) cabs with good results. Cabs are a crapshoot in any case, bass or guitar, there's a lot of tonal variation.

I've also played guitar through various modern solid state and tube bass amps and been far less than satisfied. With a lot of older amps the only real difference between bass and guitar is usually reverb on the guitar model, sometimes they use a different compliment of power tubes or have slightly more gain on tap. I've noticed most modern bass amps (tube or ss) tend to be voiced much differently on all eq points and I personally don't like the results that lends to playing guitar through them, or bass most of the time either honestly. There are no rules though, as long as you're not blowing something up it's just a matter of taste. If it sounds good it is good.

**cheezewiz** · #6 04-25-2011, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickenBoogie

It's always best to keep separate rigs for bass/guitar. I "dabble" on 6 string, and use a Fender Blues Jr with it. There are tons of great inexpensive guitar amps.

I'm with you. The Blues Jr. is a FABULOUS little, cheap, guitar amp.

BassmanPaul · #7 04-25-2011, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickenBoogie

It's always best to keep separate rigs for bass/guitar. I "dabble" on 6 string, and use a Fender Blues Jr with it. There are tons of great inexpensive guitar amps.

Bass and guitar are two completely different animals and their needs differ fundamentally. I agree with Rick that a separate guitar amp optimized for that use is the best way to go.

Fajah · #8 04-25-2011, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BassmanPaul

Bass and guitar are two completely different animals and their needs differ fundamentally.

That's a given IMO and that's why I have both a guitar and bass amp. However, I've noticed lately that there have been more and more discussions amongst jazz guitar players about the use of bass heads/cabs etc. Most of them centered around the tonal possibilities of micro bass head/guitar cab combinations.

Of course, once you get into a discussion like this, one may look at exploring the tonal possibilities of a guitar amp with a bass cab extension. Since I have both, I thought it would be interesting to try.... as long as there's no risk to my beloved Bergy.

Calaverasgrande · #9 04-25-2011, 02:48 PM

Most Jazz guitarists I know use very little OD/distortion. Usually not more than what is needed to sound "warm". SO I don't think you would be at risk to damage the tweeter. Esp since this is a tweeter that is meant to take the worst that a bass guitar can dish out.
You certainly arent goin to be feeding it more low freqs than it can handle using a guitar, unless you dabble in octave effects!
I thikn the worst that can happen is that you are too loud for the gig!

OmnitzGarima · #10 04-25-2011, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickenBoogie

It's always best to keep separate rigs for bass/guitar.

I'm actually thinking of adding a third amp, for the upright bass. The bass guitar sounds fine through my bass amp, but the upright sounds too boomy through the 15" speaker.

daflores · #11 04-25-2011, 04:26 PM

The only piece of gear that I own that doubles well as a guitar amp is my Acoustic Image Ten2. I've done small lounge gigs where I plug my Gibson 335 in channel 1 and my Fender Jazz in channel 2. Otherwise, I would never attempt to use any of my other bass gear for guitar. I've got a Fender Deluxe Reverb for exclusive 6 string gigs.

rpsands · #12 04-25-2011, 04:27 PM

My fEarful with a bass pod w/cab sim + guitar sounds pretty good but I've got no horn.

Calaverasgrande · #13 04-26-2011, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpsands

My fEarful with a bass pod w/cab sim + guitar sounds pretty good but I've got no horn.

Haha I guess it was inevitable.

jim777 · #14 04-26-2011, 09:25 AM

I only recently gave up guitar due to arthritis (after playing almost 40 years), but haven't heard a lot of guitarists ever discussing using bass amps for playing guitar. I think you'll find jazz guitarists tend to like hollow guitars through solid state amps and rock guitarists like solid bodies through tube amps, amybe that's what you heard? Fender makes a fantastic little jazz amp at the moment (a lot like a cheap Clarus) called the Jazzmaster which is a two piece head and single 12 - that's a serious jazz amp though not a practice amp. If you are serious about getting a jazz amp for guitar, it's a beaut.

I think if you are talking about practice (by yourself) volume playing, anything you've got will work and not be damaged. If you're talking rehearsal or club gig volume you should get a cheap guitar amp. Save the JazzMaster until you are committing to jazz guitar

Honestly, if you can afford the space, I'd get a small PA out of Craigslist or something from an ex-band and practice through that. I did just that, and have two synths and a drum machine in it full time, so I can practice along and jam with some chords and a drum track at living room levels and get a nice clean tone from either a bass or guitar if I want. Not a great apartment fix, but really nice if you have a basement or something.

Bassdirty · #15 04-26-2011, 09:50 AM

Didn't a lot of people use the Fender Bassman for guitar?

I'd say ... Playing guitar through a bass amp is fine. However..I'm not sure how a tweeter plays into this.

YMMV..so on and so forth...

.

JTE · #16 04-26-2011, 11:00 AM

I did play electric guitars (Guild Starfire IV and a Stratocaster) through my WT-400 into the E/A VL-208 cabinets. Didn't much care for it compared to the Blues Jr. However, playing my amplified flat-top guitar (Guild F-47 with Fishman Blender) through that rig was very nice. If you're after a very clean sort of guitar sound (Tuck Andress, maybe Joe Pass-ish) it'd be good. But if you're leaning more towards say John Scofield's sound, it's probably not going to be that nice. I'd be careful of any tweeters especially if you're using distortion, but it shouldn't hurt anything.

Regarding going the other way round... I did plug my Peavey Delta Blues amp into my bass cabinets and really liked it that way. I did a rehearsal once with a Mesa Subway Rocket guitar amp driving an Eden D410XLT that was fun too, but I wouldn't gig that way.

John

Calaverasgrande · #17 04-26-2011, 12:15 PM

My Mesa Bass 400 slays for guitar. I tried it out one day at band practice just to show the band some songs I wrote and how I think the chords should go. Even the guitarist were surprised at the tone I was getting with no pedals. Just crank the gain on channel 2 and go to the humbucker.

**IvanMike** · #18 04-26-2011, 01:12 PM

IIRC, the cube is kind of a weird amp. It tended to be favored by jazz players, and you could also play bass through it. What it lacked was the sound that guitar speakers give you as opposed to a more PA-type speaker (if I'm remembering correctly). Also, the cube had more of a "plain" sounding preamp, and a SS poweramp section, so it didn't give a guitar the sound that comes from a preamp more typically used for guitar or the much loved breakup of a tube power section. If anything, it kind of sounds like a bass amp. There's a good chance what you didn't like about the LMII/bergie combination was the speaker cab itself, but it's possible that the LMII sounds significantly different than the amplifier section of the roland.

The short answer is you won't harm the bergie, nor the roland as long as the roland can take the impedance load presented by the two speakers. The tweeter will probably sound harsh, so you'll want to turn the attenuator down. Check with bergie about turning it all the way off though, most bass cabs with tweeter attenuators aren't designed for them to be turned all the way off, even though you can physically do so. Sometimes the attenuator gets damaged from this.

zaubertuba · #19 04-26-2011, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpsands

My fEarful with a bass pod w/cab sim + guitar sounds pretty good but I've got no horn.

x2 ..except my fEarful *does* have a horn, and it's fine.

I play a "hybrid" Guitar/Bass instrument, often with separate tones and processing for each side. When running with a modeling setup it sounds great--no different than it would through a P.A., I think....which was one of the original criteria of the design, if I'm not mistaken.

The horn is inconsequential when running through a cab sim that rolls off highs. I personally think a horn is desirable for a more progressive "hi-fi" clean guitar tone (cab modeling off), but that depends on what genres/styles you're playing.

And...keep in mind I'm not really a guitar player...

Fajah · #20 04-27-2011, 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IvanMike

IIRC, the cube is kind of a weird amp. It tended to be favored by jazz players, and you could also play bass through it.

I've enjoyed my Cube 60 for guitar playing for years. What's great about it for jazz is that it has a separate clean channel. It's not as warm as a tube amp but for a lightweight SS amp, it gets the job done. I wouldn't risk playing a bass through it.

Quote:

There's a good chance what you didn't like about the LMII/bergie combination was the speaker cab itself, but it's possible that the LMII sounds significantly different than the amplifier section of the roland.

Yep, that's possible.

Quote:

The short answer is you won't harm the bergie, nor the roland as long as the roland can take the impedance load presented by the two speakers. The tweeter will probably sound harsh, so you'll want to turn the attenuator down. Check with bergie about turning it all the way off though, most bass cabs with tweeter attenuators aren't designed for them to be turned all the way off, even though you can physically do so. Sometimes the attenuator gets damaged from this.

Good to know, thanks.

Let me put another slant on this. Two buddies of mine who also happen to be former band mates in a 7 piece jazz band (keys and sax) asked me to join them for a one hour jazz set for a charity event. I was expecting to join them on bass but they wanted me on guitar. Apparently, they've wanted me to put the bass aside and get back into guitar for a long time now. It's a long story so I won't go there.

I then suggested that having guitar, keys, and sax might sound a bit thin so maybe I'll loop some bass and drum parts. They've heard me play with a looper many times over the years and thought it would be great. So after recording the bass and drum tracks into my loop station, we got together to rehearse and both were blown away by the sound. Here's a pic of my setup:

IME, I've found that playing guitar through my Cube 60 sounds fine, but the bass/drums sound anemic. Conversely, the bass/drums though my bass rig sound great, but my guitar sounds muddy. So I split the signal coming out of my pedalboard using a mono Y-adapter to both amps. The Cube emphasizes the high end frequencies while the LMII/Berg emphasizes the lows. I balance the overall sound using the volume controls on each amp.

I recently found a used Radial Bigshot pedal that's in new condition to replace the Y-adapter. However, when I started to read threads in some guitar forums about bass head/guitar cab combos and guitar head/bass cab combo.... I thought that maybe I can consolidate what I have. Not just for looping, but for guitar playing in general.

Just exploring the possibilities without the risk of damage.