Need your help TALKBASS! (Rig options)

richspillberg · #1 06-04-2011, 07:12 PM

Here is my current rig:

EBS PROLINE 4x10

Frequency Response 70 - 18k Hz
Sensitivity 103 dB
Power Rating 800 W RMS
Impedance 4 ohms

2 MUSIC MAN HD410s (For those unfamiliar, it's very similar to a MarkBass 104HF)

700W @ 8 Ohm

Mesa 400+

500 Watts @ 2Ohms, All Tube, Class A/B Power / 12x6L6, 4x12AX7

I realize I'm underpowering these cabs to a pretty high extent while also delivering unbalanced power.

The options I know of:
Running two seperate heads: I have a Epifani PS400 on hold right now. Not sure how both would sound together?

Get a poweramp: I'm pretty sure I could use the Epifani PS400 as a poweramp correct? I need to learn more about doing this as I'm not sure if a head likes the Epifani, which runs at 4 ohms 400 watts, would work with the Mesa 400+. I'm not even sure if the poweramp affects the total ohms.

I know it's a lot of power but It need it as I'm going to be playing large halls without a sound guys help. What do you guys suggest?

VS · #2 06-04-2011, 07:20 PM

I would run two separate power amps and blend the tone to your liking.

-Luke

rpsands · #3 06-04-2011, 07:21 PM

1. mesa 400+ is not 500w @ 2 ohms. More like 280 watts.

2. Three 4x10s and a Mesa 400+? Seriously? Is it not loud enough with just the Epifani cabinet? I've played in a few big halls and outdoor areas and usually it's a mistake to run louder than a 4x10 on stage in any circumstance.

3. You are not underpowering anything. Underpowering = myth.

4. Buy a nice powered subwoofer and loan it to whoever is running the vocal sound in exchange for adding you to the mix.

richspillberg · #4 06-04-2011, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VS

I would run two separate power amps and blend the tone to your liking.

-Luke

Thanks for the input. Do you know if the Epifani PS400 would be alright with the Mesa? I'm not talking about soundwise but technically. I know next to nothing about running two heads.

VS · #5 06-04-2011, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpsands

1. mesa 400+ is not 500w @ 2 ohms. More like 280 watts.

2. Three 4x10s and a Mesa 400+? Seriously? Is it not loud enough with just the Epifani cabinet? I've played in a few big halls and outdoor areas and usually it's a mistake to run louder than a 4x10 on stage in any circumstance.

3. You are not underpowering anything. Underpowering = myth.

4. Buy a nice powered subwoofer and loan it to whoever is running the vocal sound in exchange for adding you to the mix.

Please disregard this post.

Bass 400+™Amplifier
FEATURES

Handbuilt in
Petaluma, California

500 Watts @ 2Ohms, All Tube, Class A/B Power / 12x6L6, 4x12AX7

Fixed Bias

Two Inputs w/Independent Pull Bright Volume Controls, (1=Active, 2=Passive)

Pull Shift Bass & Treble Controls (Standard Mid Control)

Assignable 7 Band Graphic EQ

Dual Patch Point FX Loop (Front & Back) w/Blend Control

600 Ohm XLR Balanced Out

Slave Out w/Level Control

3-Speed Fan Cooled (Off, Low & High)

With the cabs you have, I'd run the 4 ohm EBS through the Epifani PS400 and the MusicMan's through the Mesa.

-Luke

richspillberg · #6 06-04-2011, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpsands

1. mesa 400+ is not 500w @ 2 ohms. More like 280 watts.

2. Three 4x10s and a Mesa 400+? Seriously? Is it not loud enough with just the Epifani cabinet? I've played in a few big halls and outdoor areas and usually it's a mistake to run louder than a 4x10 on stage in any circumstance.

3. You are not underpowering anything. Underpowering = myth.

4. Buy a nice powered subwoofer and loan it to whoever is running the vocal sound in exchange for adding you to the mix.

Why is the Mesa more like 280 watts at 2 ohms? I've heard from numerous people that underpowering cabs to a high extent does damage just as overpowering would..don't know the exact reasons. I've always wanted to have more than just one 4x10...paranoid about blowing speakers...switch it up when i want..just the pure capability. I suppose it's like buying a Ferrari to drive around town.

richspillberg · #7 06-04-2011, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VS

Please disregard this post.

Bass 400+™Amplifier
FEATURES

Handbuilt in
Petaluma, California

500 Watts @ 2Ohms, All Tube, Class A/B Power / 12x6L6, 4x12AX7

Fixed Bias

Two Inputs w/Independent Pull Bright Volume Controls, (1=Active, 2=Passive)

Pull Shift Bass & Treble Controls (Standard Mid Control)

Assignable 7 Band Graphic EQ

Dual Patch Point FX Loop (Front & Back) w/Blend Control

600 Ohm XLR Balanced Out

Slave Out w/Level Control

3-Speed Fan Cooled (Off, Low & High)

With the cabs you have, I'd run the 4 ohm EBS through the Epifani PS400 and the MusicMan's through the Mesa.

-Luke

Thanks again Luke. I hope they make for a cool concoction. So I'll still be alright as far as ohms, playing out of both heads?

will33 · #8 06-04-2011, 07:39 PM

OK folks underpowering = myth.....read the sticky.

Your tech can put your 400+ on the bench and tell you what it's doing and it's not 500watts with any common tolerance of distortion. When most any 100watt amp that uses 6l6's needs 4 of them how is it then you get 500 watts out of a dozen? You don't.

VS · #9 06-04-2011, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richspillberg

Thanks again Luke. I hope they make for a cool concoction. So I'll still be alright as far as ohms, playing out of both heads?

Yes sir. -Luke

VS · #10 06-04-2011, 07:44 PM

Underpowering doesn't kill your speakers...just your tone.

richspillberg · #11 06-04-2011, 08:19 PM

Anybody else? About the killing your tone thing, I just found that out the hard way!

Selta · #12 06-04-2011, 08:29 PM

The Mesa does not put out 500W RMS. 6L6s have a max dissipation of 30W each.
My input?
If you're playing large venues, you need a sound guy. Blasting everything from stage is going to suck, for you and the audience. The volume is going to suck, and the mix is going to suck.

Otherwise, I think the other points have been addressed... such as underpowering = myth. And you should just bump your old threads :P

VS · #13 06-04-2011, 08:35 PM

Are the 4 12AX7's contributing to the power as well? Just a question. I'm not very fluent in tube amps. I wouldn't say running these two amps is "blasting" really. They are both fairly low-powered amps. -Luke

Selta · #14 06-04-2011, 08:41 PM

No, they're preamp tubes, not output tubes.

Cirk · #15 06-04-2011, 08:47 PM

How about using your Mesa to power one cab and using the effects send into a power amp? Find a power amp that has the right output for your other cabs and run both channels. Folks, please correct me if I'm wrong on this.

richspillberg · #16 06-04-2011, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cirk

How about using your Mesa to power one cab and using the effects send into a power amp? Find a power amp that has the right output for your other cabs and run both channels. Folks, please correct me if I'm wrong on this.

I was thinking along these lines! would the epifani ps400 work?

BassGen · #17 06-04-2011, 09:19 PM

Dude, what size of halls are you playing? I have way more power than I'll ever need and I use one head (Ampeg SVT 6-Pro) and 2 Mesa 410's. It's capable of pushing 1100W but I've never used more than 25% of it except once at an outdoor venue.

richspillberg · #18 06-04-2011, 11:08 PM

RickenBoogie · #19 06-05-2011, 07:28 AM

how many threads on this topic? this one makes #3 or 4- and still- no reasons given for the absurdity of it all.

NecroticImbecil · #20 06-05-2011, 07:33 AM

You're not hurting anything. Does it sound good? If yes, leave it alone. If no, experiment with the cabs you have, different EQ settings, etc before buying anything. Or become one of the cool guys, and chuck it all in the river and pick up a 3 pound little orange and black colored combo, and start playing solo coffeehouse gigs.