Neo or Ceramic for fEARful cabinets ?

DrumsAndBass · #1 08-09-2011, 10:30 PM

Hello all,

Are there cab designs for Eminence ceramic magnet speakers by fEARful ?
Can we predict that the Neo speakers will become super expensive ? For example, are there preset plans for the 15/6 using ceramic magnet speakers ? The fEARful options on speakerhardware.com only mention neo magnet drivers - the fEARful 15/6 Precut Flat Pack in particular. Yes, ceramic magnets would be heavier and I'm more than perfectly okay with that.

JimmyM · #2 08-09-2011, 10:34 PM

There are none with ceramic yet because Greenboy didn't design one. I think he may be considering it because the price of neo keeps going up, but he hasn't done it yet.

3506string · #3 08-09-2011, 10:35 PM

fEARful 12/6 - Ceramic instead of Neodymium?

Passinwind · #4 08-09-2011, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrumsAndBass

Hello all,

Are there cab designs for Eminence ceramic magnet speakers by fEARful ?
Can we predict that the Neo speakers will become super expensive ? For example, are there preset plans for the 15/6 using ceramic magnet speakers ? The fEARful options on speakerhardware.com only mention neo magnet drivers - the fEARful 15/6 Precut Flat Pack in particular. Yes, ceramic magnets would be heavier and I'm more than perfectly okay with that.

Just a little heads-up: if and when greenboy designs any more cabs they are not very likely to be in the form of free giveaway designs. If you want a fEARful you would likely do well to either build or buy one ASAP.

DukeLeJeune · #5 08-09-2011, 11:12 PM

Traditionally, the way to move more air (and thus increase useable SPL before fartout) has been to go to a larger cone area.

Because the Kappalite's neodymium motors are capable of providing high magnetic strength along a very large excursion length, they changed the game by allowing significantly increased x-max to take the place of larger cone area. (The efficiency of the LF versions isn't very high, but the new generation of high-power, lightweight, affordable, high quality head amps makes that much less of an issue than it would have been in years past.)

Can the same sort of x-max be achieved with a ceramic magnet? Possibly... but we'd very likely be talking about woofers in the 25-30 pound range rather than in the 8-9 pound range.

In order to approximate the air-moving capabilty of the fEarful 12/6, we'd be looking at a ceramic 15/6. In order to approximate the air-moving capability of the fEarful 15/6, we'd be looking at an 18/6. This would be less expensive, and less heavy, than going with a super-long-throw ceramic magnet woofer that retained the original diameter.

In my opinion.

But at this point, I do not think there are any "drop-in replacement" ceramic magnet woofers that can be used in the fEarfuls, regardless of cone size. My suggestion is belly up to the bar and get your Kappalite LF woofers while you can, because I don't think they will become less expensive or more readily available anytime soon.

::::BASSIST:::: · #6 08-09-2011, 11:31 PM

Its my understanding that GB has no plans to re-do the fEARful plans to accommodate ceramic drivers. From what I've read its seems that very few drivers approach what these eminence neos do. Thus you end up with a heavier, less efficient and just plain not as good bass cab. Buy neo and do it right I say.

dhomer · #7 08-09-2011, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

There are none with ceramic yet because Greenboy didn't design one. I think he may be considering it because the price of neo keeps going up, but he hasn't done it yet.

If he does, they'll only be available through authorized builders.

bobcruz · #8 08-09-2011, 11:47 PM

And if that's too costly right now, you may have to wait another 2-3 years for non-Chinese supplies of neodymium to come online.

PhiDeck · #9 08-09-2011, 11:53 PM

What's to prevent the Chinese from playing the OPEC game? As soon as viable alternatives appear imminent, drop the price to make them non-profitable. As soon as the alternate sources fold their tents, raise prices. OPEC's been doing it successfully since at least 1974. Presumably the Chinese have been watching.

JimmyM · #10 08-09-2011, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhomer

If he does, they'll only be available through authorized builders.

Glad to hear that. Man, Greenboy did a wonderful thing with the fEarful and got a big new movement in cab design going, but he really missed out on some cash. I guess that happens...someone designs something and doesn't really know what he's got till it becomes the rage. But it bums me out he never got to cash in. Oh well, he lives in Montana, the most beautiful state in the nation, so I guess it's a tradeoff

::::BASSIST:::: · #11 08-10-2011, 01:02 AM

And I hear Montana has great dental floss.

A tip of the hat to you Mr. Zappa.

BogeyBass · #12 08-10-2011, 01:42 AM

The ceramic version of the fearful is called the Carvin LS1503
it is the original commercial cabinet that was copied

You can just buy one of those already built, with jacks handles and all. Even comes with all the speakers for 279bucks
Then if you blow it up you could upgrade.

But why risk that when you could just buy 2 for the price of one fearful and pump 450 watts into it all day long and be twice as loud.

Foz · #13 08-10-2011, 01:46 AM

GB aint in it for teh money - he's into the abuse he gets for trying to help people. Well abuse and high praise and honors for the non-participants.

Foz · #14 08-10-2011, 01:59 AM

Quote:

But why risk that when you could just buy 2 for the price of one fearful and pump 450 watts into it all day long and be twice as loud.

They also have better xovers, flat response to 372 degrees of axis, and are 9 dB up below 30 Hz because of the extra high excursion woofers and massive flared ports. Also, given they weigh only 11 farthings you'd be a fool not to buy eight and run a 1 ohm load that will be 17 times as loud as your current rig [that's 42 dB or 3 full hectares per cubit]. Plus they are excursion limited to 1,800 watts [this was measured with beer]!

Its amazing Carvin doesn't sue that bastard Greenboy for stealing this ground-breaking speaker design which introduced the concept of a three-way speaker with a 2-way crossover mounted in a box.

::::BASSIST:::: · #15 08-10-2011, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BogeyBass

The ceramic version of the fearful is called the Carvin LS1503
it is the original commercial cabinet that was copied

You can just buy one of those already built, with jacks handles and all. Even comes with all the speakers for 279bucks
Then if you blow it up you could upgrade.

But why risk that when you could just buy 2 for the price of one fearful and pump 450 watts into it all day long and be twice as loud.

They ain't the same Padre... but they did get the ball rolling.

JimmyM · #16 08-10-2011, 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BogeyBass

The ceramic version of the fearful is called the Carvin LS1503
it is the original commercial cabinet that was copied

You can just buy one of those already built, with jacks handles and all. Even comes with all the speakers for 279bucks
Then if you blow it up you could upgrade.

But why risk that when you could just buy 2 for the price of one fearful and pump 450 watts into it all day long and be twice as loud.

The LS1503 was not copied for the fEarful. Greenboy first tried putting a 3015LF in an LS1503 to test it, and it worked well for him, and then he designed and built a real cab and crossover network for the fEarful. The only similarity is that both are 3 way cabs, and neither Carvin nor Greenie invented the concept.

Mr. Foxen · #17 08-10-2011, 02:11 AM

Ceramic speakers with similar capabilities to current neos are back in development. The reason ceramics aren't up to neos is because when neo came out, it rendered ceramic magnets obsolete, no no further development was done on them in 10+ years. The thing where magnet material doesn't matter, it is all just flux, kicks in. Whilst neo was the same but better, there was no point in spending on development using the lesser material.

Whether the next generation ceramics that come out will be close enough to the neos in spec to rop in the Fearful is the question. Maybe they'll make a Kappaweight 3015lf for the purpose.

BogeyBass · #18 08-10-2011, 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Foxen

The reason ceramics aren't up to neos is because when neo came out, it rendered ceramic magnets obsolete, no no further development was done on them in 10+ years.

For sure im sending a message to JBL, Peavey ,Celestion and Eminence.

That all those new ceramic drivers they made are now invisible because Mr Foxen said they were never developed.

tom-g · #19 08-10-2011, 03:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BogeyBass

For sure im sending a message to JBL, Peavey ,Celestion and Eminence.

That all those new ceramic drivers they made are now invisible because Mr Foxen said they were never developed.

Not trying to nitpick but I do believe he said ceramic magnets not drivers.

billfitzmaurice · #20 08-10-2011, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Foxen

Ceramic speakers with similar capabilities to current neos are back in development. The reason ceramics aren't up to neos is because when neo came out, it rendered ceramic magnets obsolete, no no further development was done on them in 10+ years.

See Duke's reply. Neo allows transducer engineers to do things that ceramic simply doesn't. If drivers with 3015LF specs could have been done using ceramic they would have been.