New Amp or Guitar? (which would benefit me the most? in your opinion)

Arlekiin · #1 03-17-2011, 09:12 AM

Hello,

Im between 2 haystacks and was wondering what you guys over here think?

Im running:

LTD B-4E (4 string bass)
4x10 Markbass Cab +1x15 Markbass Cab and Markbass Little rocker 500W head.

So my dilemma is, i would like to get a new head (orange or mesa fullvalve) but I would also like to buy a new Guitar so I have to decide what comes first. Guitar in question is Rickenbacker 4003 and the head in question is a fullvalve in the same pricerange as the rick.

What would you guys pick first? Rick or fullvalve head.

Von Felgenhauer · #2 03-17-2011, 09:14 AM

****** guitars can sound good through good amps while great guitars will sound like shot through a ****** amp

ButtUglyJeff · #3 03-17-2011, 09:15 AM

What are the wattage/ohm rating of the 2 cabs? My gut says the 1x15 is the weak link in your setup. I'll be first to offer the idea of losing the 1x15 and get a second 4x10...

ben12390 · #4 03-17-2011, 09:17 AM

i would say a new guitar. your amp setup is pretty darn good. but you need a bass that can shine. A rick would be a beautiful choice, IMO.
i would love to have your rig, Markbass is good. get the rick.

Robby Hoinsky · #5 03-17-2011, 09:40 AM

My vote goes for a new bass for the bassist, however I have little basis for comparison.

Robby

AuntieBeeb · #6 03-17-2011, 09:44 AM

Depends what you're using them for in the immediate future, I guess. If you're going to be playing gigs where you may end up playing through other people's amps then you may as well treat yourself to the new Ric first. (And by the same logic, you wouldn't want to have let other bands plug into your shiny new Mesa valve head, would you?)

beans-on-toast · #7 03-17-2011, 10:01 AM

Given the choice, a good instrument inspires me to play better than a good amp. I'd go with the Rickenbacker. I love mine.

Ask yourself what you hope to gain with a new instrument and why a 4003 vs something like a jazz bass which also has a very playable neck.

Same applies to the amp. If you are looking for a particular tone, sometimes you can achieve that with a pedal.

Grateful · #8 03-17-2011, 10:03 AM

The Ric. Maybe set the 2 basses up so that they have unique sounds so you have some choice and a backup.

That seems like a pretty good rig that people would be happy upgrading to.

MuzikMan · #9 03-17-2011, 10:04 AM

Most of the time I would recommend a new amp first but not in your situation. Your Markbass rig is good enough for just about any gig, so that buys you time to get the bass that you want.

Arlekiin · #10 03-17-2011, 10:05 AM

Well Im going to play stoner/blues/psychedelic (Dead meadow, Monster Magnet, Melvins, Kyuss, Sabbath, Pink Floyd, Trouble, Jethro Tull) mostly in the rehearsal room for now but soon there will be gig's so but I suspect that we will be bringing our own gear.

My Current gear:

Well Im getting pretty good noises from it, and the 1x15 is definetly not the weak link in this setup (im happy with my cabs) only going to get another full tube amp for the tubey goodness. As mentioned before either Orange ad200b or Mesa 400+ (im reluctant towards ampegs for some reason though).

My Cabs are 8ohm (4x10" is 800W and 1x15 is 400W) together they are 4 ohm and utilize full 500W that my small head puts out.

I really want a Rick though but I also want that tube head...

Arlekiin · #11 03-17-2011, 10:07 AM

Ok rick it is, I was tilting towards that myself but needed some community support to make the decision

Also after installing DR-Black beauty strings Im getting some really nice tunes.

Why rick?:

Cause it has this high/midrange sparkle similar to the precision sound but it can also go into very low thump so can many other instruments but it has that "Rick" sound.
JazzBass is a great instrument but it's also so popular that its sound has embedded into my brain with a hot iron and I would like to get something slightly different.
Since my first Neckthru im kind of fond of them, fast neck is also an argument I have short fingers but rickenbacker still seems playable and with practice everything is playable (not as fast as ibanez but I dont want an ibanez).

There are few other instruments I would like to own: Precision, Victory Bass and there are few really nice Aria's that are probably good but have not tried them.

Thank's for answers

Grateful · #12 03-17-2011, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arlekiin

I really want a Rick though but I also want that tube head...

With some of the bands you listed, it sounds as if you need a P-Bass with flats!

Until the tube amp, grab a VT Bass!

BigOldHarry · #13 03-17-2011, 10:20 AM

Let me ask this question: Why a new amp? What is it you're hoping to get with a new amp? I'm not a MB fan, but your setup is in the upper 20 percentile of gear as it is - what's wrong with it?

Arlekiin · #14 03-17-2011, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grateful

With some of the bands you listed, it sounds as if you need a P-Bass with flats!

Until the tube amp, grab a VT Bass!

Yup waiting for my VT Bass already

Well some of my favorite bands use Ricks and others use Jazz Basses and P-Basses and few use old aria's etc.

Arlekiin · #15 03-17-2011, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigOldHarry

Let me ask this question: Why a new amp? What is it you're hoping to get with a new amp? I'm not a MB fan, but your setup is in the upper 20 percentile of gear as it is - what's wrong with it?

It has the right tone but not the right sound for me its pretty good and I could probably live with it but I'm missing some sort of swing/sing in notes and midtones...

Im aware how tubes work and how good SS works and to be honest on paper they look bloody similar but tubes have a certain sweetness. Heh actually some SS's have "swing" too I recently tried one Markbass SD1200 which sounded way more musical than my Little Rocker - so it sounds slightly dry.

So my plan is to have both im not giving up on my Little Rocker and maybe its a good thing to have something that that isnt the "recognized sound" in these genres cause one might argue that the default Ampeg mud has become so common that it doesnt surprise anymore with sound alltough it sounds good.

Anyways I am would like to get some tube sweetness but I don't want the low end to turn to mud and thats something markbass does great it gives me growl and velvetness but it still concrete - only piece missing is the powesection tube breakup or whatever it is...

I prefer tubes in my Hi-FI setup aswell. I have 2 very good headphone amps for Hi-Fi one is SS and the other is Tube they both have their advantages for vocals Tubes are unrivaled but for electronic my SS is unrivaled...go figure.

Edit: I must admit "Cigar box basses" can sound damn nice too :P

bassist4dalord · #16 03-17-2011, 10:36 AM

Hmm.. You want tubey goodness? Then why, might I ask, did you buy a MarkBass stack? No offense, just curious. In my opinion, MarkBass is the antithesis of tubey goodness. Very good sound, but it is far from tube-like.

Have you looked into a used Ric? Does yours have to be new? I would say if you want Ric, get one. Think about it this way: when you play different venues, maybe some don't have PA, some have huge PA, or if you're recording, etc... Which sound do you want coming through the final mix? Ric, or ESP? If it were me, I'd go with the Ric (between those two; otherwise P for me)

Get the Ric, rock it hard, and get the tube amp later.

P.S. Is Fullvalve a brand? Or do you mean just a full-on tube head? If the latter, what brands are you looking at?

JimmyM · #17 03-17-2011, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassist4dalord

Hmm.. You want tubey goodness? Then why, might I ask, did you buy a MarkBass stack? No offense, just curious. In my opinion, MarkBass is the antithesis of tubey goodness. Very good sound, but it is far from tube-like.

sorry eric, i can't agree. ya, you don't get that big dynamic thing happening with the 500w lm amps that you do with a tube amp, but i hear it as being very tubey sounding for a solid state rig. some have argued, some have agreed. but that's the way i hear it.

Arlekiin · #18 03-17-2011, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassist4dalord

Hmm.. You want tubey goodness? Then why, might I ask, did you buy a MarkBass stack? No offense, just curious. In my opinion, MarkBass is the antithesis of tubey goodness. Very good sound, but it is far from tube-like.

Have you looked into a used Ric? Does yours have to be new? I would say if you want Ric, get one. Think about it this way: when you play different venues, maybe some don't have PA, some have huge PA, or if you're recording, etc... Which sound do you want coming through the final mix? Ric, or ESP? If it were me, I'd go with the Ric (between those two; otherwise P for me)

Get the Ric, rock it hard, and get the tube amp later.

P.S. Is Fullvalve a brand? Or do you mean just a full-on tube head? If the latter, what brands are you looking at?

1) I had good connections with markbass dealer and R500 which I was looking at first sounded nice and tubey (only tube pre) but then the Little Rocker came out which looked good on paper and I kind of ordered it without having heard it.

2) I am happy with Cabs though dunno how they compare with mesa but in my opinion they beat Ampeg cabs so Im happy with cabs. These cabs have Warm and thick signature yet they have very good definition and they dont seem to lose detail so I think they are good also my back loves them

(im only 25 so weight hasnt yet become an issue though Id be probably happy with full on mesa cabs too

) At some point I would like get 4x12 or 6x12 with few 15s just for fun.

3)My Rick doesnt have to be new but it seems to me that (where I live) there are almost no Rickenbackers at all and vintage ones are more expensive than new ones alltough well kept vintage would be better than new anyways (old wood and all that).

4) Definetly I want Rick sound ESP is just some bass I got 2nd hand which seemed nice at the time but it was never meant to be my dream instrument - its pretty good has sustain etc but it doesnt make me shiver when I play it (from joy) but its an ok instrument I guess fast neck and pretty easy to play also stays in balance quite ok.

5) Fullvalve is not a brand I used this word to represent "Full-on Tube amplifier"

6) I have been looking at: Orange AD200B, Green, MyWatt 400, Mesa 400+

7)I would like my tube amp to have the syrupy tube quality but I dont want it to drive too early but then again I want to be able to run the power section into slight drive/growl. Basically I want it to have nice thick clean tone and be able to run it into nice slow growl if I really push it (shouldnt jump into drive too quickly).

8) I will probably be gigging in small clubs and underground pits and open air stages with no PA or if there is a PA its gonna be the one we bring...also the sound level is anything between whisper and an earthquake with lazers and tweeters....

Arlekiin · #19 03-17-2011, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

sorry eric, i can't agree. ya, you don't get that big dynamic thing happening with the 500w lm amps that you do with a tube amp, but i hear it as being very tubey sounding for a solid state rig. some have argued, some have agreed. but that's the way i hear it.

Hmm so when you say you dont get that dynamic thing happening with 500W head then do you mean that you might get it to happen with 1200W head's? Is more headroom the answer when dealing with solid states? Cause as I mentioned the SD1200 did seem more dynamic and musical and I was quite surprised by that.

Yes it is somewhat tubey to me too, just now Im starting to miss that actual tube swing but I suspect it matters more to me than it matters to the mix - probably this rig would sound awesome in the mix but in rehearsals etc I would like to get more tubeness just for myself.

Also I cant escape the feeling that there is a part of me that wont get to rest until I have owned one tube montser cause if I dont itll be "what ifs and should a would a coulda's all around".

P.S: Another reason for getting the Little Rocker was price I couldn't afford a Tube head when I was buying these pieces.

Raymeous · #20 03-17-2011, 11:07 AM

After a while of debating all the pluses and minuses you just have to go with your gut. Normally I would say amp first, but if you don't have two basses, I would get the Ric for sure. I'm a firm believer in having a plan B. So for now get the second bass, and a direct box for you amplifier "Plan B". A DI will never really replace a good amp in my book but for a few bucks you can have that emergency fix in your gig bag.

Get the bass if you haven't already. Besides a new bass is sexier than a new amp. Just sayin'