New Bass Rig Advice

[jetbike]

I'm a returning bass player. I had a few years away form playing, sold all my gear and regretted it hugely.

So now I'm at the planning stage of a new rig. I have modest ambitions, but would like to gig and like to play loud. I plan to get back into a band, which will likely be anything from indie-rock, post-rock or punk. I like vintage tones and aesthetics, but modern reliability.

I also have limited storage and can't go overboard on the expense.

My plan so far: Orange Terror Bass 500 and Aguilar DB210. Big enough for small jams and home practice. Then, later on, add a further DB410. What I'm hoping is to dial my tone at home and then by adding more of the same size speakers will have something similar, but louder.

Previously had a 1995 MIJ Jazz and a 1990 Hiwatt combo. Currently playing a stock 2011 MIA Fender P-Bass.

Any thoughts?

[vivifiction]

For starting to get back into it, I might classify a Terror Bass and Ag. Cab "overboard" on the expense. You must make a lot more money than I do. (Note: you almost assuredly do. I'm a college student).
That being said, if you can afford that, I say go for it. Otherwise you'll buy something you don't want as much and still have major GAS for the gear you really want.

[Jim Campbell]

Originally Posted by jetbike

I'm a returning bass player. I had a few years away form playing, sold all my gear and regretted it hugely.

So now I'm at the planning stage of a new rig. I have modest ambitions, but would like to gig and like to play loud. I plan to get back into a band, which will likely be anything from indie-rock, post-rock or punk. I like vintage tones and aesthetics, but modern reliability.

I also have limited storage and can't go overboard on the expense.

My plan so far: Orange Terror Bass 500 and Aguilar DB210. Big enough for small jams and home practice. Then, later on, add a further DB410. What I'm hoping is to dial my tone at home and then by adding more of the same size speakers will have something similar, but louder.

Previously had a 1995 MIJ Jazz and a 1990 Hiwatt combo. Currently playing a stock 2011 MIA Fender P-Bass.

Any thoughts?

some would say that 2 x db 2x10s @8 ohms ea stacked vertically would be a better plan....

[jetbike]

Originally Posted by vivifiction

For starting to get back into it, I might classify a Terror Bass and Ag. Cab "overboard" on the expense. You must make a lot more money than I do. (Note: you almost assuredly do. I'm a college student).
That being said, if you can afford that, I say go for it. Otherwise you'll buy something you don't want as much and still have major GAS for the gear you really want.

I know what you're saying, but I'm not a newb. I've been playing a long time and I know I want quality. I'm not massively wealthy (I'm a nurse), but am prepared to spend some time saving. Above all I don't want to buy a cheap rig, which I then have to upgrade hugely when I start playing with bands. I thought the option of having a small and big cab might be a way of serving two masters, home (compact and portable) and bands (Loud).

Originally Posted by Jim Campbell

some would say that 2 x db 2x10s @8 ohms ea stacked vertically would be a better plan....

Why's that? Educate me.

Ps. GAS?

[rudedogg]

Originally Posted by jetbike

I know what you're saying, but I'm not a newb. I've been playing a long time and I know I want quality. I'm not massively wealthy (I'm a nurse), but am prepared to spend some time saving. Above all I don't want to buy a cheap rig, which I then have to upgrade hugely when I start playing with bands. I thought the option of having a small and big cab might be a way of serving two masters, home (compact and portable) and bands (Loud).



Why's that? Educate me.

Ps. GAS?

Guessin he was thinkin of the storage limitation you spoke of in the first post....also the vertical 2x10s stacked form a "line array" which is thought to give quite a wall of sound pressure. The 4x10 and 2x10 will do what you want tho...ive used them seperately for rehearsal and as a full stack at gigs and never lacked for stage volume! A little less portable is all

[GrowlerBox]

Originally Posted by rudedogg

Guessin he was thinkin of the storage limitation you spoke of in the first post....also the vertical 2x10s stacked form a "line array" which is thought to give quite a wall of sound pressure. The 4x10 and 2x10 will do what you want tho...ive used them seperately for rehearsal and as a full stack at gigs and never lacked for stage volume! A little less portable is all

The advantage of stacking the speakers vertically to form a line array is two-fold -- first, it maximises horizontal dispersion of the mid and high frequencies (speakers sitting side-by-side function as one large speaker for these purposes and "beam" these frequencies in a very narrow pattern). Second, it brings the speakers closer to your ears, where they gots to be because vertical dispersion plays a role here.

The 210/410 combo is also useful, although you lose the "line array" advantages. Ideally, though, you want the 210 cabinet to have twice the total impedance of the 410 cabinet to ensure that each driver receives the same power output from the amp. Typically this means combining an 8 ohm and a 4 ohm cabinet for a total of 2.7 ohms, which is lower than the majority of SS amp heads can handle -- not sure about the Orange Terror, but it would be worth checking beforehand if this was your plan.

[jetbike]

I should have mentioned that I'd only get the 410 once in a band. Then I can store at rehearsal place.

[Jim Campbell]

Originally Posted by GrowlerBox

The advantage of stacking the speakers vertically to form a line array is two-fold -- first, it maximises horizontal dispersion of the mid and high frequencies (speakers sitting side-by-side function as one large speaker for these purposes and "beam" these frequencies in a very narrow pattern). Second, it brings the speakers closer to your ears, where they gots to be because vertical dispersion plays a role here.

The 210/410 combo is also useful, although you lose the "line array" advantages. Ideally, though, you want the 210 cabinet to have twice the total impedance of the 410 cabinet to ensure that each driver receives the same power output from the amp. Typically this means combining an 8 ohm and a 4 ohm cabinet for a total of 2.7 ohms, which is lower than the majority of SS amp heads can handle -- not sure about the Orange Terror, but it would be worth checking beforehand if this was your plan.

yeah....what he said.....

gas.....gear acquisition syndrome

[steve_rolfeca]

I'd be leery of buying the Terror unheard.

Just tried one a couple of days ago, and it's a good amp, but something of a one-trick pony compared to heads that cover a broad array of tones, like the Markbass LMII/III or Genz Shuttle. The Orange had a big, round, pillowy low end, and while the tone controls were pleasantly voiced, they didn't have much range.

Paired with a TC Electronic RS210, I couldn't tighten up the lows, and couldn't get anything resembling a modern sound on top, even with the tweeter dimed on the cab. The end result was pretty "old school" for a class D micro rig.

[catty]

Originally Posted by jetbike

I know what you're saying, but I'm not a newb. I've been playing a long time

...

Ps. GAS?

In America, GAS is the first thing you must know about...

[jetbike]

Originally Posted by steve_rolfeca

I'd be leery of buying the Terror unheard.

Just tried one a couple of days ago, and it's a good amp, but something of a one-trick pony compared to heads that cover a broad array of tones, like the Markbass LMII/III or Genz Shuttle. The Orange had a big, round, pillowy low end, and while the tone controls were pleasantly voiced, they didn't have much range.

Paired with a TC Electronic RS210, I couldn't tighten up the lows, and couldn't get anything resembling a modern sound on top, even with the tweeter dimed on the cab. The end result was pretty "old school" for a class D micro rig.

Thanks for info. I'm not massively concerned about this. I'm looking for a vintage tone, modern bass sounds leave me a bit cold.

Originally Posted by GrowlerBox

The advantage of stacking the speakers vertically to form a line array is two-fold -- first, it maximises horizontal dispersion of the mid and high frequencies (speakers sitting side-by-side function as one large speaker for these purposes and "beam" these frequencies in a very narrow pattern). Second, it brings the speakers closer to your ears, where they gots to be because vertical dispersion plays a role here.

The 210/410 combo is also useful, although you lose the "line array" advantages. Ideally, though, you want the 210 cabinet to have twice the total impedance of the 410 cabinet to ensure that each driver receives the same power output from the amp. Typically this means combining an 8 ohm and a 4 ohm cabinet for a total of 2.7 ohms, which is lower than the majority of SS amp heads can handle -- not sure about the Orange Terror, but it would be worth checking beforehand if this was your plan.

That makes sense. I'll have to consider this quite seriously. so 8 ohm 210 and 4 ohm 410? Now need to check the specs of the Orange TB 500.

[jetbike]

BT only has 4 or 8 ohms. Would I be better off getting 210 and 212?

[GrowlerBox]

Originally Posted by jetbike

BT only has 4 or 8 ohms. Would I be better off getting 210 and 212?

You'd be better off staying with the same driver size -- i.e. 2 x 210 or 2 x 212. And better still if the cabs are identical in every respect. There are no tonal differences between speaker cabinets that can be attributed to speaker cone diameter -- this is just one of around 20 parameters that are used to describe a speaker's characteristics, and the above-mentioned dispersion is the only aspect of sound reproduction directly related to cone diameter. Those speakers are then put in an enclosure, and the interactions become extremely complex. Predicting how two different cabinets will interact is essentially impossible, and almost always results in significant phasing issues (i.e. out of phase waves from the various sources interacting and producing peaks and troughs at various frequencies at various points in the sound field). Keeping everything the same minimises these issues and results in more even sound and higher volume throughout the spectrum.

[Rockmusician]

I think what you are considering is just fine. You know your situation, likes and dislikes better than anyone else. If you like it and can afford it, buy it.

[ishouldbeking]

Honestly if I were in the position to be buying a new cab... I'd look long and hard at the Avatar TB153. Don't write it off as just another "fifteen", it's a completely different design, and I think if you paired it with the right head, you'd be really happy with the volume you're putting out, and the tone (not to mention the price).

Today is the last day they're selling them at the current price, btw. No pressure, haha.

Also, regarding the Orange head... I'd defintiely try one before you buy. They're cool, but as someone else said, they really only do one thing, and those amps have some weird design issues. The fact that DI can be rendered unusable depending how loud you're playing is a dealbreaker for me. Don't get hung up on the "I like vintage tones, therefore I must have THIS amp" thing. The orange is a very modern amp that relies on the old-school image to move units. Some people love em, and rightfully so, but with that brand it's more of an image thing than anything. I owned one of their cabs for a while, and I liked it enough, but it was waaaaay overpriced.

Other amps to at least look into for the tone you're talking about: Ampeg SVT7, Genz Benz Streamliner, Mesa Boogie Walkabout (tonally I'm pretty sure this is the best of all of them, but it is expensive and not quite as loud as others... however, it's as loud as an SVT, so take that for what it's worth), even the Gallien Krueger MB Fusion is worth a look. Probably a few more too, but I'm no expert.

[Calaverasgrande]

Honestly, I'd check out a used GK 400RB. Best bang for the buck head around. Especially if you can get one of the older ones with the solid light grey front panel and the (IME/IMO) sturdier construction. Theycan do a few good tones, get quite loud, and are CHEEP!