New Bergantino Line of Neo Cabs!!!

[Quackhead]

I found that my pair of HT210s did sound better when they were cranked though. But seriously, the low end and low mids really opened up at higher volumes.

Originally Posted by KJung

I find cabs with this sort of 'fat, round, punchy' tone sound great at all volumes. I agree some very wide, deep cabs seem to get flubby and non-distinct sounding at very low volumes, but the CN212, just like the AE 10 loaded boxes and the HD cabs, sound quite even through their entire volume range to me. Zero issue IMO and IME, and I am quite sensitive to this.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Quackhead

I found that my pair of HT210s did sound better when they were cranked though. But seriously, the low end and low mids really opened up at higher volumes.

The HT210's are about the most 'scooped and deep' cab Jim ever made IMO. I would definitely agree with this. Not so with the AE or CN or HD or HS cabs IMO and IME.

If you are considering a CN, just as a point of reference, I LOVE the CN cabs, and the HT210 was one of the few cabs Jim ever produced that I significantly disliked.

[Quackhead]

Thanks Ken for that succinct post. All kidding aside, that's great information and it will be a tough choice when I have the funds to buy a new 212. HD or CN will be a tough choice. I do love punch in my tone, but I do love me some big fat booty. I may have to find a dealer in Northern California and try them both out, that is if they are both in stock!

Originally Posted by KJung

Since this thread got a bit off-track, and is getting a bit long for many to sift through, here is a summary (IMO and IME) for those familiar with Berg cabs (which is the primary target of this thread at this 'pre-introduction' point):

If you love the HT cabs, the most recent version being the HT112ER, IMO the CN cabs might be fun additions for a different tone, but are in no way 'lightweight alternatives'. Very different tone profile... somewhat similar down low, but much more mid mid presence, a brighter top end, and a much more relaxed, organic tweeter. Very different voicing.

If you liked the AE410, the AE210 or the AE112, you will LOVE the CN112/212.... period Of course, if you like those cabs and own them, then you are set anyway, other than maybe wanting a smaller, lighterweight and somewhat more even execution of the AE410 or AE112.

If you love the AE212, the CN212 might be a bit too mid present and have a bit too much upper mid rise for you. If you like the AE212 but wish it had a bit more low mid meat and mid punch, you will LOVE the CN212. Period!

If you love the HD410/HS410, you will at least 'like' the CN212. A bit brighter, not quite as full in the low mids, but pretty close down low, and the upper mids are pretty easy to control with the typical upper mid control of many amps. The top end/treble is very similar. Given the massive difference in weight and significant difference in size, and the 'similar tone universe' and volume performance (I would guess you would get 80%+ max volume), I would think owners of these cabs who are a bit tired of the weight and size might end up being quite excited about the CN212.

The HD112/212... that is a bit more complicated. Same size, but much heavier. An even fatter low end and smoother mids. The CN212/112 might be a nice alternative if you are primarily driven by weight (i.e., like me, making the HD212 not even an option), but the HD212/112 will sound a bit more open, will pump a bit harder, will have a more refinded upper mid response, and will seem 'bigger' down low. I personally like the CN tone profile better, but I'm all about punch and a bit of grind versus absolute low end extension.

If you like the NV610, the CN212 MIGHT serve as a small gig substitute/alternative, since the low mid fatness, mid mid punch, and the nice organic/present upper mids with the tweeter rolled down a bit, will at least seem a bit familiar. Surely not the same thing, but again, would get you close enough given the massive weight difference for at least some gigs.

IMO and IME. For those who aren't familiar with Jim's cabs, my guess is, there will be significant clips and posts as these roll out through April to help you determine if this line might float your boat

That being said, I think the CN cabs would be great lightweight alternatives to those who dig the Aguilar DB cabs, the Bag End cabs, or even some of the older Eden XLT cabs. All those cabs have their own sound of course, but all to my ear are mid complex, punchy, and with a well controlled but 'fat in the mix' low end.

[GRoberts]

Originally Posted by Quackhead

I found that my pair of HT210s did sound better when they were cranked though. But seriously, the low end and low mids really opened up at higher volumes.

That was my experience with the HT322 as well. It breathed life once I got it cooking. But with my AE410, it sounds great at all volumes.

[Quackhead]

That's funny because I didn't find the HT210 any more scooped than the HT322 I owned. In fact, I found that the pair of HT210s when played together was a much more flat sounding setup than my HT322. Different strokes for different pokes...

Originally Posted by KJung

The HT210's are about the most 'scooped and deep' cab Jim ever made IMO. I would definitely agree with this. Not so with the AE or CN or HD or HS cabs IMO and IME.

If you are considering a CN, just as a point of reference, I LOVE the CN cabs, and the HT210 was one of the few cabs Jim ever produced that I significantly disliked.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Quackhead

That's funny because I didn't find the HT210 any more scooped than the HT322 I owned. In fact, I found that the pair of HT210s when played together was a much more flat sounding setup than my HT322. Different strokes for different pokes...

The HT322 is the second most 'scooped' cab Jim every made Quite similar in tone IMO. Again, great if you dig it. Big lows, no lower mid bump, very relaxed mid-mids, and a bit of 'distance' between the top end of the driver and the tweeter kicking in, which is very representative of the term 'hi fi' as used on TB... very deep, mid mid relaxed, upper mid scooped which allow the very sizzly tweeters (i.e., massive upper treble extenstion) to kind of float above the cab a bit... very pure and clean... kind of what a 'contour' or 'enhance' knob does, but baked in. I gigged the modular version of the HT322 for a while.

Gary is actually agreeing with you, and I'll +1 also. The early HT's sounded better when cranked a bit.

The CN is literally the opposite of the that tone. The HD212 is, IMO a 'better' execution of that tone.. big down low, more mid mid present, still relaxed in the upper mids, and a more organic, less hi fi top end.

IMO and IME.

Again, not doggin' those cabs as much as making sure you realize that the new CN is about as 'opposite' from the old HT's as you can get. I like it much better, but if you LOVE those HT210's (or the HT322), then the HD212 is as close as you will get in the current line (and the differences IMO are to the positive for the HD112). If you are looking to lighten the load, the HT112ER/EX112ER stack will get you quite close, a bit more even, same top and, and smaller footprint/lighter weight. They come up used somewhat regularly in the classifieds.

[Quackhead]

Due to my choice of basses (usually a Jazz bass), strings (DR Fat Beams), and playing style, I have always had a strong mid presence in my tone that fits well with a scooped type of cabinet. I think the HD cabinets would be a good choice for me. I'd like to grab an HT112ER dual setup, but I think a single HD212 is probably going to do it for me.

Originally Posted by KJung

The HT322 is the second most 'scooped' cab Jim every made Quite similar in tone IMO. Again, great if you dig it. Big lows, no lower mid bump, very relaxed mid-mids, and a bit of 'distance' between the top end of the driver and the tweeter kicking in, which is very representative of the term 'hi fi' as used on TB... very deep, mid mid relaxed, upper mid scooped which allow the very sizzly tweeters (i.e., massive upper treble extenstion) to kind of float above the cab a bit... very pure and clean... kind of what a 'contour' or 'enhance' knob does, but baked in. I gigged the modular version of the HT322 for a while.

Gary is actually agreeing with you, and I'll +1 also. The early HT's sounded better when cranked a bit.

The CN is literally the opposite of the that tone. The HD212 is, IMO a 'better' execution of that tone.. big down low, more mid mid present, still relaxed in the upper mids, and a more organic, less hi fi top end.

IMO and IME.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Quackhead

Due to my choice of basses (usually a Jazz bass), strings (DR Fat Beams), and playing style, I have always had a strong mid presence in my tone that fits well with a scooped type of cabinet. I think the HD cabinets would be a good choice for me.

+1 And, it is funny how we all hear things differently. A J with Fat Beams.... big down low, polite in the mids, lots of treble extension I think you probaby just like that wide, smooth, upper treble extended tone. Nothing wrong with that. You will gain some low mid punch with the HD212, and lose most of that 'above 8K' sizzle due to the revised tweeter/crossover. I think you will dig it, and it should wump VERY well!

One man's 'deep, smooth, relaxed' is another man's 'scooped, overextended and not punchy'. One man's 'fat, round, and punchy' is another man's 'mid congested and overly bright' Both, I'm sure have been described as 'neutral and flat' by those who like each tone profile

[Quackhead]

That's funny because I hear a lot of mids from my Jazz.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Quackhead

That's funny because I hear a lot of mids from my Jazz.

+1 I was more talking about the string choice. Again, zero issue... I totally dig that 'J with Hi Beams' (or Fat Beams.. pretty similar to my ear, mostly different in the deep low end fatness) type tone... smooth, lots of zip up top, relaxed upper mids.

[JGR]

Just got this email from the Bass Specialties mailing list on the new line:


Ciao Bassiti
so it turns out that rumors about the demise of neodymium speaker cabinets have been greatly exaggerated!
due to some stabilization in the world market for this rare earth material, manufacturers are once again designing lightweight cabinets
as many of you may already know, Jim Bergantino has 2 such speaker cabs in the pipeline – the “all new” CN112 & CN212 cabinets – priced at $749 & $1170
The CN series will be based on 2 designs, a 112 and 212. They will both contain neo woofers and a lighter weight wood which has afforded the opportunity to bring the weights down to 28lbs. and 46lbs. respectively. They will also be based on the HD112 and HD212 cabinet formats.
expected to be available in about 4 to 6 weeks, there seems to be a quite a bit of interest in theses new designs, so pre-orders are encouraged!

Glenn Marrazzo
Bass Specialties
2846 Street Road
Bensalem, PA 19020
215.244.4079 ~ 877.244.4079
www.BassSpecialties.com

[Tunaman]

If you watch the stock of MCP which handles rare earths, they have gotten CRUSHED as the prices came back to reality.
46 lbs for a 212... thats impressive.

Buy the Berg & buy a few shares of MCP at $8 & when they go back to $75 you can kiss the Berg for making you so much, ha ha

edit: $7.40

[jerry]

Originally Posted by Quackhead

I found that my pair of HT210s did sound better when they were cranked though. But seriously, the low end and low mids really opened up at higher volumes.

+1, I had a HT212 and HT310 that I loved before I got old, they also really seemed to open up after getting a little juice.

[tombowlus]

Originally Posted by jerry

+1, I had a HT212 and HT310 that I loved before I got old, they also really seemed to open up after getting a little juice.

+1 And those cabs go very well together!

Plus, I'm still using two HT310's and two custom Berg 1x15 subs in my PA!

[bucephylus]

Ken, I've been following this recent thread of yours; but must say, I am going to be from MO on this one (Oh wait, you are too!)

Two main reasons.
A) I totally dig my AE212; and when it might not have enough impact, have an HD112 to stack under it; and that should be sufficient, thank you very much. BTW, yes, I hear a bit of difference between HD and AE, but not so much that when balanced in the mix, it really matters to me; YMMV.

B) I am not quite getting the NV610 comparison. Have you gigged one of those? They have that palpable texture that I've only heard in the SVT before, but in a small box. For me, that was the discriminating characteristic more than "mid punch." I would be amazed if a 212 can replicate that impact. Maybe so, but like I said, I am going to be from MO here. I did go from an NV610 to the AE212 (OK, I know, wildly different sonic universes etc); but that AE212 does quite well for what I need with a similar smoothness, if lacking that textural presence.

I am glad Jim is back at this approach. And, yes, the cabs sound amazing. Just not so much so that I feel an urgent desire to re-tool.

But, I could always change my mind. We'll see. Been wrong before.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by bucephylus

Ken, I've been following this recent thread of yours; but must say, I am going to be from MO on this one (Oh wait, you are too!)

Two main reasons.
A) I totally dig my AE212; and when it might not have enough impact, have an HD112 to stack under it; and that should be sufficient, thank you very much. BTW, yes, I hear a bit of difference between HD and AE, but not so much that when balanced in the mix, it really matters to me; YMMV.

B) I am not quite getting the NV610 comparison. Have you gigged one of those? They have that palpable texture that I've only heard in the SVT before, but in a small box. For me, that was the discriminating characteristic more than "mid punch." I would be amazed if a 212 can replicate that impact. Maybe so, but like I said, I am going to be from MO here. I did go from an NV610 to the AE212 (OK, I know, wildly different sonic universes etc); but that AE212 does quite well for what I need with a similar smoothness, if lacking that textural presence.

I am glad Jim is back at this approach. And, yes, the cabs sound amazing. Just not so much so that I feel an urgent desire to re-tool.

But, I could always change my mind. We'll see. Been wrong before.

Sounds like you are set. Again, NO reason to purchase this cab if you dig the AE212 completely. That is a wondeful cab.

And, I would suggest you reread my comment on the NV610 and I think it will clear up your question. It is the 'textural presence' of the CN212 (as you describe it) that is the big difference between the AE212 and the CN212. It isn't a volume thing, but a tonal thing, and the CN212 would give you a bit of that 'feeling' you get from your NV610 IN THE CASE WHERE YOU DON"T NEED THE VOLUME of the 610 for smaller gigs and more difficult load-ins. MUCH closer than the AE212. However, of course, not so close as being any sort of 'replacement'.

Even with your first point, you seem to be somehow reading in my comments that the CN212 is somehow 'louder' than the AE212. It is not. It just has more of the HD line of cabs low end fatness, and a bit more of the AE410/AE112 brightness up top versus my AE212. That is a magic combination for me personally (and of course the weight spec is amazing for those of us who are 'one nighter freelancers'), but of course, that won't be a positive for everyone.

The main reason I'm pretty pumped about this line of cabs is the massive numbers of people (soon, it will be time to turn off the PM's again!) looking for a lightweight, good sounding, single cab solution for backline that is loud enough to do most gigs with a moderately powered micro head. Not that many options out there at the moment. The AE line has been 'off the market' for quite some time now, the status of the Genz cabinet line seems a little shaky at the moment, the GK stuff is 'OK for the price' IMO, etc.

[pauliebass]

I bet Ken gets swamped with PM's.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by pauliebass

I bet Ken gets swamped with PM's.

I love it when I'm not in the middle of a project, etc. When I get busy with work (I'm my own boss!) I just 'take a rest'

[cybersnyder]

Originally Posted by pauliebass

I bet Ken gets swamped with PM's.

Ken rocks!

[GRoberts]

Originally Posted by cybersnyder

Ken rocks!

Concur + One Meeeellion!