New Cab, New Head, or Both?

Stingray5 · #1 09-24-2010, 11:19 PM

So I recently picked up a Genz Benz Neox 2x12 to replace my old Hartke 4.5XL and a Hartke 2x10. Powering it with a Hartke LH500. Well the transition from 10s to 12s has not been kind to me. I am just not able to get the punch and big bottom end that has been my sound for such a long time. The Genz is a nice, clear, even sounding cab but it just doesn't seem to open up in the low register, in some respects neutering the low B on my SR5. It just sort of fizzles out for lack of a better description. I picked up a VT Bass but the same problems persist. I can't get rid of the low mid range boominess no matter what I try.

Now one thing I notice is that during gigs the Genz does seem to come to life a bit and growl and punch but only when I'm REALLY diggin in. Otherwise just not satisfied with the overall sound.

So my question is, should I go with what I know and back to a 4x10, or would a more powerful amp like the shuttle 6 or 9 'feed' the genz cab better and allow me to get what I want out of it?

If it's the cab, any suggestions on a neo 4x10 that's not too deep? (needs to fit in the back seat of my sedan). Max of about 16" deep cab would be ok. So far I've found the Hartke Hydrive HX410 which is 15"deep, and also the Bergantino AE 4x10 at 15.5". Anything else that would fit the bill? If a new cab is the answer a pair of 2x10s wouldn't be out of the question but the budget is around $1200 max. For background the Bass is a SR5 and the gigs are top 40 covers, weddings, clubs etc. Go thru a PA so have FOH support. Everything sounds good out there but just not on stage. A lot of long load ins so want to keep it light. Thanks for any input!

waleross · #2 09-25-2010, 03:07 AM

What you end up going with is up to you. However, I recently bought a new Genz Benz 1200 head replacing an SvT4pro to go through an 810E. Great sound and was worth it . I don't know much about the other Gb heads( shuttles etc. ) but as far as this purchase went I'm sold.....Also their cabs might be a future purchase even though I'm loaded up with Ampeg cabs......good luck . . . .

franchelB · #3 09-25-2010, 06:13 AM

I don't think it's the head or the cabinet.
Would you consider going the effects route?

I'd suggest tyring:
1. Sonic Maximizer
2. graphic eq
3. Compressor

shoot-r · #4 09-25-2010, 06:46 AM

I played 10's for many years and like you I went the two 12's route for a short time.
To my ears the 212" loaded cab sounded great when playing around the house by myself but in a band setting I wasn't happy.
In a live band I got a great low-end pillow, but not enough cut/clarity for my tastes.
I've since went back to ten's and couldn't be happier! (Two 210 Avatar Neo cabinets used as a vertical 410.)
Your other change, you went from 610's, (a Hartke 410 and 210 cabinets), to a 212 cab.
With 610's you have roughfully 330 square inches of cone surface area, with 212's, 160 square inches.
You were moving alot more air with 610's which to me equals punch, big bottom, a bigger sound.

KsPiNeSh · #5 09-25-2010, 07:31 AM

I own that cab and power it with a Mesa Carbine and GBE 1200, and I have zero trouble getting low end and punch. My suggestion would be to ditch the Hartke.

Stingray5 · #6 09-25-2010, 12:25 PM

thanks for the feedback so far.

Franchel I had done some reading about cutting the midbass frequencies with parametric eq but I don't really want to start adding rack gear and such since I mainly play out and need to keep it simple. Also I think the amp and cab should be able to stand on their own and give me what I want. but thx!

Shoot-r - I failed to mention that I was using the 4x10 OR the 2x10, never together. But still I hear you and I feel the same way, but even at home I just am not getting the same punch and bottom from the 12s.

Kspinesh - thx, this is obviously the other thing I am considering. I used Hartke stuff for so long because I like the tone, and used a HA3500 for a long time. Since switching to the LH500 it hasn't been the same..

So I'm still torn, I really want to love this Genz cab - everything else about it is fantastic, but of course the most important thing of all is how it sounds to me and my band and how it fits my playing, and that's the one area I can't get going right..

Bmorefoozler · #7 09-26-2010, 09:55 AM

You have roughly half the cone area that you are used to. THat has something to do with the low end, certainly more then the diameter of the speaker is.

blmeier7 · #8 09-26-2010, 10:06 AM

As I'm sure you know, every cabinet is not right for every player. Maybe the Neox 212 just isn't your cab. I really wanted to like the Neox 112 and it just didn't give me what I was looking for. There is a ton of love for the GB Neox cabs here on TB. Keep in mind that the Neox cabs are designed to be a little more mid-focused than some of the other cabs out there. This may explain what you are hearing in the full band mix and why you seem to be cutting through some more at the higher volumes.

Years ago I had the Hartke 410 XL and thought it was a nice cab. For the past 6+ years I've played mainly 12" cabs due to the type of music I play (blues, funk, classic rock, and some country). I mainly gig with the Genz Benz Uber 212 and I love it. If I was moving back to a 410 cab I would look at the GB Uber 410 (although this may be too deep for you as it is 18" in depth) or the Carvin BRX 10.4 as a lower cost option. The reviews on the HyDrive 410 seem nice and I would love to give one a try sometime.

Stingray5 · #9 09-27-2010, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blmeier7

As I'm sure you know, every cabinet is not right for every player. Maybe the Neox 212 just isn't your cab. I really wanted to like the Neox 112 and it just didn't give me what I was looking for. There is a ton of love for the GB Neox cabs here on TB. Keep in mind that the Neox cabs are designed to be a little more mid-focused than some of the other cabs out there. This may explain what you are hearing in the full band mix and why you seem to be cutting through some more at the higher volumes.

Years ago I had the Hartke 410 XL and thought it was a nice cab. For the past 6+ years I've played mainly 12" cabs due to the type of music I play (blues, funk, classic rock, and some country). I mainly gig with the Genz Benz Uber 212 and I love it. If I was moving back to a 410 cab I would look at the GB Uber 410 (although this may be too deep for you as it is 18" in depth) or the Carvin BRX 10.4 as a lower cost option. The reviews on the HyDrive 410 seem nice and I would love to give one a try sometime.

Thx man I think you really hit the nail on the head. It's one of those things where I guess I'm in a little bit of denial because I can't believe I spent almost a grand on a cab and I'm not satisfied. The uber 4x10 would be great but yeah, just too big.

Now I wonder if I should shell out again for something like the Berg AE 4x10, or keep cost under control and would I be satisfied with the Hydrive 4x10 (being that I was always more than satisfied with the 4.5XL)... Also what about Avatar's 4x10? Does anyone know how that compares to the Berg?

Stingray5 · #10 09-28-2010, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KsPiNeSh

I own that cab and power it with a Mesa Carbine and GBE 1200, and I have zero trouble getting low end and punch. My suggestion would be to ditch the Hartke.

Little update - I did some troubleshooting and took my old HA3500 head, plugged the VT Bass into the effects return and out to the Genz. WOW.

the LH500 is the problem. When I run thru that with the 2x12 it just sucks the life out of the low end, no matter how I eq it (and I am aware of what the true flat setting are on the LH).
It played nice with the hartke cabs but apparently it's just a bad match with the Genz.

so as KsPiNeSh suggested, looks like I'll be ditching the Hartke for a better match..