New chap, need gigging bass amp help

[hensley]

Hi All,
Great forum you have here - people very knowlegeable and courteous.

Anyhoo, a bit of background first.
For various reasons I have moved from rythm guitar to bass in my band (I played some bass long long time ago).
Types of music - mor, pop, 60's to 2000's, ballads etc
Venues/gig types - wedding, function, social clubs, pubs, charity - pretty exclusively indoors. (UK)

So, looking for a combo - not head/cabs etc. Price limit £500 ($800) rigid, and as lightweight as possible (I'm an oldie..)

I'm guessing that I would be looking at what ? - 300 to 500 watts
( I'm saying 500 watts because a fellow in a bass guitar shop
in the UK suggested that was the least I would want, for the
headroom/power/clarity etc)

Was looking at the Gallien Krueger mb115 but the bass shop guy's 500 watt opinion put me off a bit as it would seem underpowered

Thanks in advance

[Rodger Bryan]

These are contenders- lightweight, within budget, 500w combos. I don't know about Carvin's shipping costs outside of the US.

Carvin.com :: BR515N

Gallien-Krueger MB212 2x12 500W Ultralight Bass Combo Amp and more Bass Amplifiers at GuitarCenter.com.

[fenderslaper]

I have the Carvin BX500 head and love it. I'm using it with a SWR Goliath III. I have also used it with a single 15 which worked well also. I had the GK MB115 for one day and sent it back. It just wasn't up to the job for me. You would need to contact Carvin RE: shipping to the UK.

[rpsands]

I'd get the MB212 myself if I wanted a gigging combo.

[B-string]

I'd give a +1 to the G-K MB212, only concern is relying on Thomlan (is that correct, the Eu distributor) if you have any concerns. MarkBass is in Eu and might have some 500 watt combos? Audition the MB212 and some more local to you manufacturers stuff.
300 to 500 watts is a good range, more important is 2 12" or 4 10" to use that wattage to make sound (and the MB212 is pretty light weight).

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Sadly our £500 doesn't translate to $800 worth of gear, because most bass gear is cheaper in the US

I'd strongly recommend looking at used gear, granted, that will limit you a bit in terms of 'light'.

Will you be using a PA?

If so, you could use a DI or preamp and run that through the monitors and speakers.


Here's a place that deals with a lot of the boutique style amplifiers here in the UK:

http://www.bassdirect.co.uk

Much of which is pushing your budget out the window, but there are some great light setups there, check out Genz Benz, TC Electronic and Markbass especially.

Also have a look for the Ashdown Superfly (no longer made) and MiBass amplifiers.

I think Peavey are doing some lightweight stuff now, that you may also want to checkout.

Also, wattage isn't everything. You need to take into account the speaker size (and sensitivity) you are using too.

I'll also add again, used market, some great deals to be had (I've seen peavey stacks going for under £250, got my peavey 215, which is awesome! for £75, saw a Marshall VBA400 & 4x12 (400 watt tube amp, very nice!) for £500).

Hopefully that's some use and I've not just made things more complicated.

Finally, I prefer seperates to a combo, not everyone is the same, but it can make the load out easier if you make it in 2 trips.

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Originally Posted by B-string

I'd give a +1 to the G-K MB212, only concern is relying on Thomlan (is that correct, the Eu distributor) if you have any concerns. MarkBass is in Eu and might have some 500 watt combos? Audition the MB212 and some more local to you manufacturers stuff.
300 to 500 watts is a good range, more important is 2 12" or 4 10" to use that wattage to make sound (and the MB212 is pretty light weight).

Thomann Cyberstore ?

If so, they are very reliable, I've used them a number of times, tend to be cheaper than alternatives in the UK too!

Also, I don't think anyone has said yet, but if you really want to keep the budget tight, you could get some Behringer stuff, which really seems to have come on a bit in the last 5 years or so.

[B-string]

Originally Posted by i_got_a_mohawk

Thomann Cyberstore ?

If so, they are very reliable, I've used them a number of times, tend to be cheaper than alternatives in the UK too!

Also, I don't think anyone has said yet, but if you really want to keep the budget tight, you could get some Behringer stuff, which really seems to have come on a bit in the last 5 years or so.

Thank you for the correction! Maybe they have gotten better? I got involved helping more than a couple chaps across the pond, G-K Artist relations contacting them got the issue resolved. Don't think it should have required it, so maybe the internet has had an effect on CS?

[RickenBoogie]

+1 to paying more attention to the speakers than the wattage. It's like this: 100 watts through a 4x10 will be louder than 300 watts through a 1x10, and so on. The aforementioned GK MB212 is 500 watts through a pair of 12" drivers. That's pretty good compromise all around- plenty of juice, and adequet speakers.

[hensley]

Thanks folks,

Many interesting pieces of information :

Rickenboogie - I laughed at your comment about 100w through a 4x10 will be louder than 300w through a 1x15 - not because I don't believe it but because it sounds so contrary to what you would think.

Carvin - pretty much no distribution here unfortunately

Ashdown Superfly - browsed the net - nothing available

GK 212 - This is looking more likely although they don't have them anywhere in Scotland (I think they are seen as a bit 'exotic'
lol.) Thoman has them for just over the £500 so it is a definate possibility

Behringer - I'm by no means a gear snob and was looking at the
BXL3000A. Unfortunately it's over 60lb and as I said, I'm and older
guy and the thought of getting it in and out of the car, upstairs etc frightens me greatly !

Was looking at the Fender Rummble 350 too, but again 67lb wow.

So, it's looking like the GK 212 is the one.

Thank you all four your suggestions and comments - they gave me good help in getting close to what I am after.

Cheers

[soulman969]

I use a GK MB112 which is just 200w and it's a pretty fantastic little amp and I would imagine the MB212 to equally nice. Weight is incredible vs the sound it puts out. My 112 is fine for smaller venues and for using with sound reinforcement. For 90% of what I do it's fine. If I have to do a bigger gig I'll rent or borrow a more powerful rig.

Just as a side note. I played wedding and party gigs in good sized halls for years using a 150w 1x15 setup and never felt it lacked enough volume for that. It's hard for me to believe a 200w GK MB115 wouldn't do for what you specify if you prefer the sound of 15"s over 12"s. That would cost you a bit less than the MB 212.

Good hunting!

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Originally Posted by hensley

Thanks folks,

Many interesting pieces of information :

Rickenboogie - I laughed at your comment about 100w through a 4x10 will be louder than 300w through a 1x15 - not because I don't believe it but because it sounds so contrary to what you would think.

Carvin - pretty much no distribution here unfortunately

Ashdown Superfly - browsed the net - nothing available

GK 212 - This is looking more likely although they don't have them anywhere in Scotland (I think they are seen as a bit 'exotic'
lol.) Thoman has them for just over the £500 so it is a definate possibility

Behringer - I'm by no means a gear snob and was looking at the
BXL3000A. Unfortunately it's over 60lb and as I said, I'm and older
guy and the thought of getting it in and out of the car, upstairs etc frightens me greatly !

Was looking at the Fender Rummble 350 too, but again 67lb wow.

So, it's looking like the GK 212 is the one.

Thank you all four your suggestions and comments - they gave me good help in getting close to what I am after.

Cheers

I was trying to remember another ashdown offering at the time, but couldn't remember the name. Now I can. Have a look at the Ashdown Little Giants:

Ashdown Little Giant 1000watt

1000 watts (2x 500 watt channels @ 4 ohms), £270, weighs 3.5Kg(7.7lbs).

Will add that I'm not familiar with that site, just one that popped up.

Regarding watts and output. If you take a setup and double the power of the amplifier (watts), you'll only get an increase of 3dB (all other factors being the same). Likewise, if you double the speaker area you're using, from say a 1x10 to a 2x10, you'll get an increase of 3dB (again, all things being equal).

I'd also again suggest seperates, unless you specifically want a combo. Helps cut down the weight

[hensley]

I got Mowhawk :

Was looking a the Ashdown you mentioned and came across this pretty comprehensive review :

Ashdown Little Giant 350 - Basschat

It mentions the 1000watt as well - not a very positive review unfortunately

I'm not against separates as such, but it seems the smaller the head, the more you have to pay, 2 things to carry and getting the correct cab seems to be a very 'dark art' lol - ohms, speaker size, watts eek!
(but will have a look at heads for my own info - question though,
is 4 ohms head better than 8 ohms head, and is that the correct question ?)

Soulman 969
Thanks for your input
Well, that's the thing, I was set on either the gk 112 or the 115
till the bass shop guy said 500watts at least for functions etc
With that and Rickenboogie saying the '100 watts through a 4x10 will be louder than 300 watts through a 1x10, and so on'
It's made me unsure.

The more you know, the less straightforward it seems to be !

[i_got_a_mohawk]

I'd say the biggest downside he talks about is the power, but he was using an 8ohm 2x10, which isn't going to be terribly loud being pumped by a maximum of about 200watts.

Impedance is something people can get caught up on. It really depends on the amplifier and cabs you want to use.

If you have a 4 ohm amp, you can use a single 4 ohm cabs, a single 8 ohm cab or two 8 ohm cabs.

With the LG1000, you have two 4 ohm channels, so you could run a 4 ohm cab on each channel (or a single 8 ohm, or 2 8 ohms).

As long as you don't go below the stated impedance of the amplifier (solid state), you are fine, you won't hurt a thing. But the higher the impedance, the lower the power. (This is not true for tube amplifiers).

Power (watts), when talking about an amplifier is the power the amplifier can achieve. When talking about watts with a speaker cabinet, it is the maximum power that the cabinet can take without risk of damage (there is more that goes into it, but we'll keep it simple right now!).

Speaker size is more of a personal preference.

I wouldn't say it's a dark art, just gives you the chance to have a bit more variety , if you find an amplifier that you like the look of, see if you can try it out with a few different cabinets. At the power ratings you'll be using, most modern cabinets should be fine!

If you have the time, hang out a bit here, and try to get to grips with some of what works for different situations etc.

The "500 watts" for functions is a bit overkill, unless you are using a single, small, inefficient speaker. I blast 300 watts through an 8x10 and rarely need a fraction of the power I can get from that setup (not played in a while but used to play pubs, clubs and medium sized halls).

I've seen plenty pub bands where the bass player has used a single 1x15, 100-150watt combo and had no issue.

Going back to something else, will you be able to put the bass through any PA you guys are using? If so, you'd only need a small backline amp for yourself.

[hensley]

That has made things a (wee) bit clearer, as you say, I'm going to read among the posts to see what info I can glean.

It's that thing where, you don't know where you are going to play
and if there is an in house PA, so you want the extra watts
just in case
Also the guys I play with are a bit old school - only the vocals
through the PA and the occasional acoustic guitar ! - it muddies
up the sound aparrently....

Given your experence, would it be safe to say that (bearing in mind what Rickenboogie said) that the GK 115 would sound louder than the 112 even though they have the same wattage ?

Also, If I bought 2x gkmb112's, could I use a y connector and have 400 watts from these (if I needed it) ?

Cheers

[tycobb73]

Because I need lightweight I specificly didn't look at combos. I think a head and cab separate would suit your needs better. They're putting out heads that can deliver all the wattage you need for under 10 lbs. Combine that with a neo 2x10 and you'll be all set. I'm in the middle of a trade that involves an Eden WT 550. Pair this with my 210 which weighs 45 lbs and my 115 which weighs 35 lbs and I'm all set to handle any situation. You can get a lot lighter than the WT550 if you need it. But by going with separate heads and cabs you have more options.

[tycobb73]

And if this is only for stage volume 500 solid state watts will be overkill.

[RickenBoogie]

For perspective, I have gigged with 300 watts and a 2x12 in a fairly loud 4 pc rock band, 2 guitars- no problem. Of course, they were using 2x12 guitar combo's, not massive stacks of death. By the sounds of your situation, I think 200-300 watts should be plenty, through 2 12's especially. The GK MB212 should do nicely. The single driver combo's may also be enough, but it's always best to have more than "enough" just in case- especially if you're not likely to get any PA support. There are lots of options, but just as a generalization, I think you're already on the right track.

[B-string]

With RickenBoogie here, 2 12" will provide more sound than a single 15", twice the sound of a single 12" for the same wattage input. 500 watts overkill? Your kidding right? The difference between 300 watts and 500 watts is not that large (at those power levels) and just provides for more dynamic range in your playing. 900 watts up from 300 watts would be a notable change in perceived loudness with the same speakers so 500 watts is just gravy.
So recap, MB212 has 500 watts, 2 12" drivers and weighs 39lbs (17.7kg) with great sound. Where is the loose? Oh you may have to put a piece of carpet under it on a wood stage to keep it from bouncing around (from some reports here). Tom B from Bass Gear mag picked it up with his pinky finger

[i_got_a_mohawk]

The 500 watts being overkill is mainly in response to the OP being told by someone in-store that 500 watts was the minimum he would need, which I still disagree with. Not that you couldn't use it, but that it's claimed that would be the minimum you need!

Also, you won't get twice the sounce from 2x12 vs 1x12, you'll get 3dB more, that's only slightly more than than the difference between 300watts and 500watts.