New gear week......

JoshuaTSP · #1 04-12-2011, 07:24 AM

In my search for a new cab, I found a 6x10 Ampeg cab on CL for a decent price. It's the USA made version.

How are they?
Never played one. Meeting the guy half way tonight, so I won't really get to try it.

Also, I'm meeting a TB member Wednesday for a trade deal. I will get his Mesa 400+ and he'll get my Attitude bass and some cash.

I've read a lot of mixed reviews of the 400+.

How do you think the 400+ will go with the 6x10?
What's the deal with running into both inputs?

Overall, I'm just excited to try new stuff and put together a new gig rig.

georgestrings · #2 04-12-2011, 07:51 AM

If you buy that cab, I predict blown drivers in your future... I had one of those for a little while - it was literally like new, and US made... It wouldn't get as loud as either the SVT-410HLF or the SVT810e, didn't have anywhere near the low end of the 410, and was also lacking the mids of the 810... It would fart out at the volumes I normally play at, whereas the cabs I have now won't - and the Ampeg 410 and 810 I mentioned don't, either... If you A/B it directly to Mesa's PH610, SWR's Goliath Sr, or Berg's NV610, you will be laughing at just how crappy that cab is...

The Mesa 400+ is great, the Ampeg SVT-610HLF sucks - IME/IMO...

Lastly - buying a cab from a complete stranger without checking it out thoroughly is a really stupid idea...

- georgestrings

JoshuaTSP · #3 04-12-2011, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by georgestrings

If you buy that cab, I predict blown drivers in your future... I had one of those for a little while - it was literally like new, and US made... It wouldn't get as loud as either the SVT-410HLF or the SVT810e, didn't have anywhere near the low end of the 410, and was also lacking the mids of the 810... It would fart out at the volumes I normally play at, whereas the cabs I have now won't - and the Ampeg 410 and 810 I mentioned don't, either... If you A/B it directly to Mesa's PH610, SWR's Goliath Sr, or Berg's NV610, you will be laughing at just how crappy that cab is...

The Mesa 400+ is great, the Ampeg SVT-610HLF sucks - IME/IMO...

Lastly - buying a cab from a complete stranger without checking it out thoroughly is a really stupid idea...

- georgestrings

I'm running out of choices.

My 4 ohm 2x15 works, but I'd really like to try something else.
(I also have a pair of 4 ohm Carvin 2x10 neos)

Thanks for your opinions.

I was a little iffy on the Ampeg 6x10 in the first place....but bass things rarely pop up on our CLs.

True. Buying blindly from CL is sketchy....but I don't really have a choice.

jackcheez · #4 04-12-2011, 08:10 AM

I gigged the hell out of an Ampeg 6X10 for years. I used an SVT-CL, an MTI SVT, an 800RB and the V4-B. All with satisfying results and no trauma to the speakers.

coreyfyfe · #5 04-12-2011, 08:29 AM

I enjoyed the 610HLF while I had it. I'm not usually a fan of ported/tweeter cabs so I would dial the tweeter completely (or almost completely) out and had to keep my lows slightly cut so things wouldn't get boomy, but otherwise it was a decent cab. Eventually I moved to a sealed cab without a tweeter and sold the 610, but it never gave me any trouble.

jackcheez · #6 04-12-2011, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coreyfyfe

I'm not usually a fan of ported/tweeter cabs so I would dial the tweeter completely (or almost completely) out...

Same here.

JoshuaTSP · #7 04-12-2011, 08:43 AM

I use a lot of dirt/OD/fuzz pedals.....so tweeters are always off for me.

I just don't want to buy it and blow the crap out of it.

With a Carvin 8x10 cab, I was running my Ashdown ABM500EVOII at around 50% on the master. Not sure if that gives you a good feel for how loud we play?

jackcheez · #8 04-12-2011, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoshuaTSP

I use a lot of dirt/OD/fuzz pedals.....so tweeters are always off for me.

I just don't want to buy it and blow the crap out of it.

With a Carvin 8x10 cab, I was running my Ashdown ABM500EVOII at around 50% on the master. Not sure if that gives you a good feel for how loud we play?

You'll break it.

Get an 8 X 10. Nothing less.

christw · #9 04-12-2011, 09:09 AM

I tried my Ric + AlphaBass into both a 610HLF and Genz Benz 610-XB2 when cab shopping. The XB2 blew it away but the HLF wasn't bad. It just wasn't great. That's why I bought the XB2.

JoshuaTSP · #10 04-12-2011, 09:12 AM

So far, I've fried two 15" speakers......one ceramic of unknown origins, and a brand new Emi Kappalite about a month ago.

I didn't think 300w (my old amp, now 500w) into a 900wRMS cab could be that unreliable.

(or was I underpowering? is that even true?)

christw · #11 04-12-2011, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoshuaTSP

So far, I've fried two 15" speakers......one ceramic of unknown origins, and a brand new Emi Kappalite about a month ago.

I didn't think 300w (my old amp, now 500w) into a 900wRMS cab could be that unreliable.

(or was I underpowering? is that even true?)

What cab? And 900w is likely it's thermal rating, when the drivers melt down. JimmyM addresses that here: Hey, listen up, cab manufacturers! Rant coming!

Also, I hope you're joking about underpowering. Of course it isn't true!

calebbarton · #12 04-12-2011, 09:24 AM

the speaker repair guy that I take all my stuff to usually tells me not to believe the rating on the back of the speaker. Usually he tells me that its about half of what the company rates it at. Supposedly, he has blown several speakers by running them just below their rated power handling.

Now, as someone who knows next to nothing about speakers I cant challenge that with actual facts. All I know is that I recently had a 450w 4ohm Eminence Kappa come through my shop that was totally blown. It was in a cabinet with 1 other EV 15L speaker which did not blow from the same load. When I pulled the speaker, there was a whole list of things wrong with the mounting and installation that could have done a good job of blowing up that speaker as well or the fact that it was an improper impedance match for the existing speaker in the cabinet....

JoshuaTSP · #13 04-12-2011, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by christw

What cab? And 900w is likely it's thermal rating, when the drivers melt down. JimmyM addresses that here: Hey, listen up, cab manufacturers! Rant coming!

Also, I hope you're joking about underpowering. Of course it isn't true!

It was a SWR cab with stock speakers....blew one and replaced them with Eminence Kappalites....which are rated at 450w RMS/900w max.

So two in the cab would allow it to handle 900w RMS?
Is that right?

I've heard a lot about underpowering, but I said it mostly as a joke.

BillJarrett · #14 04-12-2011, 09:29 AM

Scoop up that 400+ for sure!

The 6x10? ehhhhhhh, I'd keep looking.

christw · #15 04-12-2011, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoshuaTSP

It was a SWR cab with stock speakers....blew one and replaced them with Eminence Kappalites....which are rated at 450w RMS/900w max.

So two in the cab would allow it to handle 900w RMS?
Is that right?

I've heard a lot about underpowering, but I said it mostly as a joke.

I thought you did as a joke. I just wasn't 100% sure.

I'd say 450w would be a fair guess of the mechanical limits if the speaker and cabinet were a good combination. But I'm just an amateur with this stuff. I pick it up from guys like Bill Fitzmaurice and greenboy when they debunk myths and occasionally brutally inform the uninformed.

JoshuaTSP · #16 04-12-2011, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillJarrett

Scoop up that 400+ for sure!

The 6x10? ehhhhhhh, I'd keep looking.

I've never played a 400+, they sound good?
I read they're more of a clean-ish sound....kind of opposite to the SVT?

Any cab suggestions?

I'm avoiding the 8x10....since it's so huge.
I'd prefer dual 4x10s if anything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by christw

I thought you did as a joke. I just wasn't 100% sure.

I'd say 450w would be a fair guess of the mechanical limits if the speaker and cabinet were a good combination. But I'm just an amateur with this stuff. I pick it up from guys like Bill Fitzmaurice and greenboy when they debunk myths and occasionally brutally inform the uninformed.

The local shop guys were trying to tell me that I shouldn't underpower speakers. I don't know much, but I know enough to know that it doesn't make sense.

I posted here about my speaker selection after the first blew....and was told the Kappalites would work just fine with my cab.
Now I've got one ceramic and one neo in there.

Sundogue · #17 04-12-2011, 09:54 AM

Watts don't mean squat. It's ALL about displacement limitation.

The wattage rating of speakers (and therefore the wattage rating of the cabs they are in, including multiples of those speakers...i.e.- two 100 watt rated speakers in one cab = a 200 watt rated cab) means ONLY the wattage at which you'll melt the voice coils.

Most (not all) cabs are generally displacement limited to about half their wattage rating. Which means the speakers will only put out so much volume up to their displacement limitation and then anything above that will only be wasted heat and energy and they will fart out and blow long before you melt their voice coils.

I know just how much people love us fEARful lovers for bringing it up, but I'm trying to make a point here, so take a fEARful 15/6 for example...That is a cab where it's displacement limitation is near the wattage rating and you could literally melt the voice coil with enough wattage before it reaches its displacement limitation. Down side is you have to be careful not to melt the voice coil because you'd probably not hear it fart out before that happens. Up side is they can take a lot of power and get hellishly loud.

But yeah as mentioned, JimmyM's rant was about these stupid wattage ratings from manufacturers as if it really meant something in the real world, with regards to their cabs. No way they are going to tell you their cab can really only take half of what the "rating" states. Wattage ratings look better, so it sells more. What do you think they will tell you?

I'd listen to their argument on the subject if they'd be willing to put their money where their mouth is (or "fingers on keyboard" in this instance). Just ask them to post excursion charts for their cabs under different wattage.

georgestrings · #18 04-12-2011, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoshuaTSP

True. Buying blindly from CL is sketchy....but I don't really have a choice.

Sure you do - don't do it... I've had my say here - good luck...

- georgestrings

JoshuaTSP · #19 04-12-2011, 10:15 AM

How else do I get a reasonably priced cab, that fit my requirements?

Local shops suck, GC is 2 hours away, and ordering a cab online automatically adds at least $150 (minus MF used gear).

Craigslist can be sketchy, but that's how I got my 2x15, and it was fine.

georgestrings · #20 04-12-2011, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackcheez

You'll break it.

Get an 8 X 10. Nothing less.

Yup - playing loud requires moving alot of air, and to do so requires alot of speaker, or a constant influx of cash to fix broken stuff... Personally, I make sure I bring enough rig so that I don't have to push it hard to get the job done - that way, I don't break stuff, and consistantly sound good in the process...

There's no free lunches in the "I play loud" game - it is what it is...

- georgestrings