New Markbass Alain Caron sig combo

[Eublet]

Anyone had a chance to check one of these out yet? I just noticed it on their website, and it looks darn intersting to me.

Markbass - COMBO 121 LITE

[KJung]

That has been up on their site for a couple of years now. Not sure if it is in production. My guess is, even if it is, Guitar Center would probably not import it due to what I would guess is a very high price.

Kind of a strange design. Originally, the prototype was a mid driver loaded cab, which would make sense with the biamp capability. Having a 100 watt amp to drive a little tweeter is kind of strange to me. It makes sense with the GK stuff, since that 50 watt tweeter amp allows you to put all that 'GK grind' through the woofer and not the tweeter. Since the Markbass heads are very clean, not sure what advantage the extra complexity and cost would give you.

I guess maybe they are using a super duper compression driver crossed over quite low, so maybe it does make sense. Kind of over my head.

My guess would be, one way or the other, you would not see these in the US, again, due to the distributor not being interested. Just guessing.

[Musicman20]

I thought this was a new one? I know he had powered cabs by Markbass, with a footswitch and computer program to allow tweaking.

I bet these are very expensive, but I actually like the concept.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Musicman20

I thought this was a new one? I know he had powered cabs by Markbass, with a footswitch and computer program to allow tweaking.

I bet these are very expensive, but I actually like the concept.

I remember a thread discussing this combo quite a while ago, but it might have been based on a prototype at NAMM, and I might be misremembering it being on the actual Markbass site for that long.

[Eublet]

Yeah, I think this is a new one. Could be wrong. The 100 watt amp is listed as being analog, and the crossover is down at 3.5khz. It's confusing though because if you do a search, there's a NAMM demo where Peter describes the amp as being 800 watts for the woofer, and a separate 200 watt amp for the tweeter.

At just under 40 lbs, that could be a killer setup if it's available. I visit the MB website every so often just for fun, and this is the first time I've ever seen a "121Lite" listed that I can recall.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Eublet

Yeah, I think this is a new one. Could be wrong. The 100 watt amp is listed as being analog, and the crossover is down at 3.5khz. It's confusing though because if you do a search, there's a NAMM demo where Peter describes the amp as being 800 watts for the woofer, and a separate 200 watt amp for the tweeter.

At just under 40 lbs, that could be a killer setup if it's available. I visit the MB website every so often just for fun, and this is the first time I've ever seen a "121Lite" listed that I can recall.

+1 That was the wattage of the one I'm talking about, so this is probably the production model that finally came out, based on the original prototype I was talking about.

Again, biamping with a tweeter with that high crossover point seems to add a lot of cost and complexity for very little gain, but I could be missing something. The 'original original' prototype that they showed had a mid driver, which makes much sense with the biamp design.

[Eublet]

Originally Posted by KJung

+1 That was the wattage of the one I'm talking about, so this is probably the production model that finally came out, based on the original prototype I was talking about.

Again, biamping with a tweeter with that high crossover point seems to add a lot of cost and complexity for very little gain, but I could be missing something. The 'original original' prototype that they showed had a mid driver, which makes much sense with the biamp design.

Supposedly, the design is supposed to help with the clarity in the highs, coming both from the biamp design as well as the analog signal path in that region. Knowing Caron's style of play, I can see description being something he's after, and he's always been somewhat technical when it comes to gear. I'm more wondering if the combo has the warmth of the LMII but with more headroom and power coming from the bigger amp. I've always kinda liked the biamp GK stuff just because of the way you could control things a bit better. I'm not sure if this would do the same, but I think the VLE could make a biamp tweeter sound REALLY good. I suppose it would depend on the quality of the crossover and smoothness of the compression driver itself.

I'll have to keep my eyes peeled for US distribution.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Eublet

Supposedly, the design is supposed to help with the clarity in the highs, coming both from the biamp design as well as the analog signal path in that region. Knowing Caron's style of play, I can see description being something he's after, and he's always been somewhat technical when it comes to gear. I'm more wondering if the combo has the warmth of the LMII but with more headroom and power coming from the bigger amp. I've always kinda liked the biamp GK stuff just because of the way you could control things a bit better. I'm not sure if this would do the same, but I think the VLE could make a biamp tweeter sound REALLY good. I suppose it would depend on the quality of the crossover and smoothness of the compression driver itself.

I'll have to keep my eyes peeled for US distribution.

The GK thing makes sense, and again is quite different (i.e., keeping the signature GK grind out of the tweeter signal path). Not sure what a class A/B amp would be any clearer than a class D, and again, driving a little tweeter crossed over that high with a 100 watt amp seems a bit silly, and given that the Markbass heads are 'clean', not sure what the point is.

I'm sure it sounds great, but IMO you would probably be better off getting a high quality, 4ohm 112 with a good crossover and the Markbass head of your choice. IMO there.

[Russell L]

The thing looks a lot like my CMD 121H combo, and the dimensions and weight are right at the same. But, after reading about it on the website I'm left wondering about some things. It doesn't mention an external speaker out, for one thing. Nor does it talk about the ohms. So, what is it, 500w at 8 ohms or 4 ohms? Or is it like the Little Mark series 300/500 at 8/4? I can say this, though, the compression driver in mine sounds really good, and it's crossed over at 3.5K as well (I think all Markbass compression drivers and piezo tweeters are). The only thing about my combo is that the 12" driver runs out of excursion on me if I get too heavy handed with a tad of bottom going on. My 151P cab with Little Mark III separate head can blow the 121H combo off the map, never complaining, plus it's just a hair more sensitive.

[Eublet]

Originally Posted by Russell L

The thing looks a lot like my CMD 121H combo, and the dimensions and weight are right at the same. But, after reading about it on the website I'm left wondering about some things. It doesn't mention an external speaker out, for one thing. Nor does it talk about the ohms. So, what is it, 500w at 8 ohms or 4 ohms? Or is it like the Little Mark series 300/500 at 8/4? I can say this, though, the compression driver in mine sounds really good, and it's crossed over at 3.5K as well (I think all Markbass compression drivers and piezo tweeters are). The only thing about my combo is that the 12" driver runs out of excursion on me if I get too heavy handed with a tad of bottom going on. My 151P cab with Little Mark III separate head can blow the 121H combo off the map, never complaining, plus it's just a hair more sensitive.

I have been wondering the same. Perhaps the driver in this cab has a bigger x-max than the standard 121 combo. Knowing Caron's playing style, his percussive slapping would be VERY strenuous an a typical 112 cabinet. That's kind of what is appealing to me on this. If it has the headroom to handle his playing style, then it could really be a cool combo cab to have. It's a good bit bigger than I'd want, but I have to assume that would add to the depth and wump of the tone as well.

[Russell L]

Originally Posted by Eublet

I have been wondering the same. Perhaps the driver in this cab has a bigger x-max than the standard 121 combo. Knowing Caron's playing style, his percussive slapping would be VERY strenuous an a typical 112 cabinet. That's kind of what is appealing to me on this. If it has the headroom to handle his playing style, then it could really be a cool combo cab to have. It's a good bit bigger than I'd want, but I have to assume that would add to the depth and wump of the tone as well.

I can say that my 121H combo has more depth of sound than the 121P combo with its diminutive-sized cab. Also, I can slap on mine, even with the VPF filter up some, but just not at a volume I'd like. My speaker will clank with the gain at 2:00 and master at, say, noon, and with the VPF at, say 10:00. It only does it when I let my plucking hand plop back onto the strings in between notes, kinda like a rhythmical muting action. The 151P cab doesn't do it. If I just pluck the strings, though, and don't "plop" the 121H combo does just fine at high volume. I think part of the problem for me is my "plopping" style. Gotta watch that, it puts a heavy spike through the system.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Russell L

I can say that my 121H combo has more depth of sound than the 121P combo with its diminutive-sized cab. Also, I can slap on mine, even with the VPF filter up some, but just not at a volume I'd like. My speaker will clank with the gain at 2:00 and master at, say, noon, and with the VPF at, say 10:00. It only does it when I let my plucking hand plop back onto the strings in between notes, kinda like a rhythmical muting action. The 151P cab doesn't do it. If I just pluck the strings, though, and don't "plop" the 121H combo does just fine at high volume. I think part of the problem for me is my "plopping" style. Gotta watch that, it puts a heavy spike through the system.

IMO, one of the reasons you hear so many guys slapping when trying out rigs is because that is a quick and easy way to test both the headroom of an amp and the mechanical 'stoutness' of a cabinet. As you say, those massive transient peaks on the thumb hits on the E string will bring many a rig to its knees.

The only single 12's I've encountered that have stout enough mechanical specs/xmax to handle slap style (or really digging in with your fingers) at moderately high volumes are what I've been calling the Super12's..... Audiokinesis Thunderchild, the fEarful type 12/6 cabs, and possibly the new Acme FullRange neo 12.

It is possible that they are using one of these more PA sub type drivers in this combo, and making up for the lower SPL by using a 4ohm driver. That would be cool, although still doesn't really explain to me why they would biamp.

[jbo]

I messaged Peter Murray about this amp and he said it is supposed to be up for sale in the US starting this month. As for it's sound, I gather from Peter's reply that Caron was involved in trying many different options before settling on the final result, and Peter mentioned that this combo sounds pretty awesome, especially for slap!