New (to me) JBL Dual 115 Rig

[theinada]

Over the last week after many hours of research and bartering, I was able to snag a couple of JBL 4625B Cabaret cabs. The cabs are loaded with JBL E-140-8 speakers and I have to say I'm very impressed with the cabs.

But, holy crap, heavy! Each weighs about 90 lbs.

Here's a picture of the rig.



From what I could dig up on Talkbass, this used to be a high end rig about 25 years ago (with a GK 400RB of course). Unfortunately I just have the GK400RB-III, which in my experience is a bit different machine.

The GK400RB-III has been good to me, but it's far from the best sounding head I've tried lately. These cabs are getting me MUCH closer to a tone I love, even with the GK. Deep, round, but lots of midrange character. Does anyone have any recommendations on a different head to power these cabs? They are pretty efficient cabs, 100db I believe. Each handle 200w continuous sine wave. Ashdown? Mesa? Tube? Streamliner?

Just playing in stores, I've been really impressed with the Mesa M6. Can anyone speak with any experience powering E-140-8s with modern heads? Would I be an idiot running 600W into these two? Or is the answer always to listen for speaker distress?

Cheers!
-Adam

[jungleheat]

Looks like a pretty cool setup! Are those just "subs" with no horns/tweeters?

600 might be a little on the high side for those cabs unless you're good about listerning to the speakers and not cranking the bass EQ too high. 300-500w would probably be a bit better in terms of keeping you out of trouble. You don't want to blow a cool set of vintage speakers, its bad karma.

What to get really depends on what kind of tones you like, what size constraints you might have if any (which is probably none, if you have 2 big cabinets anyway), budget, etc...

I love both my heads for different reasons. I have an SWR Bass 350 (pre Fender) and a Trace Elliot AH 600-12 (recent). The SWR has a cool more "modern vintage" vib e that would probably mix very well with the JBLs. I run mine in part through a vintage Carvin cab with a JBL M151 in it which sounds great. The Trace has more features and is a bit more versatile as well (and has about 20% more power).

Anyway, good luck. Pretty much any decent head should sound good through those cabs, just don't crank the volume or the bass too high and you should be in tone land for a long time.

[Bassmec]

Originally Posted by theinada

Over the last week after many hours of research and bartering, I was able to snag a couple of JBL 4625B Cabaret cabs. The cabs are loaded with JBL E-140-8 speakers and I have to say I'm very impressed with the cabs.

But, holy crap, heavy! Each weighs about 90 lbs.

Here's a picture of the rig.



From what I could dig up on Talkbass, this used to be a high end rig about 25 years ago (with a GK 400RB of course). Unfortunately I just have the GK400RB-III, which in my experience is a bit different machine.

The GK400RB-III has been good to me, but it's far from the best sounding head I've tried lately. These cabs are getting me MUCH closer to a tone I love, even with the GK. Deep, round, but lots of midrange character. Does anyone have any recommendations on a different head to power these cabs? They are pretty efficient cabs, 100db I believe. Each handle 200w continuous sine wave. Ashdown? Mesa? Tube? Streamliner?

Just playing in stores, I've been really impressed with the Mesa M6. Can anyone speak with any experience powering E-140-8s with modern heads? Would I be an idiot running 600W into these two? Or is the answer always to listen for speaker distress?

Cheers!
-Adam

25 years ago it was indeed high end! and the reason the rig is still high end is cos:
A) It still works perfectly today and will do for ages if you don't actually do anything stupid to break them.
B) IMHO it sounds better on bass guitar than just about anything you can buy in a 15" speaker if 15" is your thing.
These cabs deserve a proper bass guitar amplifier with at least 3 X 12ax7 tubes and 4 X KT88's.
Or if its Mesa 12 X 6L6 output tubes would be best.
Don't assault these beautiful old speakers with a lightweight modern tranny amp, if you can lift a proper vintage 15" speaker, why not lift a proper vintage tube amp.
I collect the K series versions with the Alnico magnet which are a little bit lighter in weight but sound very very similar.
Now you have E140's you can save on gym membership.

[MysticMichael]

Originally Posted by theinada

Would I be an idiot running 600W into these two? Or is the answer always to listen for speaker distress?

There is never a circumstance in which "listen for speaker distress" would be an incorrect answer...

MM

[MysticMichael]

Originally Posted by theinada

Does anyone have any recommendations on a different head to power these cabs?

Insufficient information. As always, the more prepared you are to qualify the question(s) you pose, the more correct & precise is likely to be the answer(s) you receive...

MM

[theinada]

Originally Posted by Bassmec

25 years ago it was indeed high end! and the reason the rig is still high end is cos:
A) It still works perfectly today and will do for ages if you don't actually do anything stupid to break them.
B) IMHO it sounds better on bass guitar than just about anything you can buy in a 15" speaker if 15" is your thing.
These cabs deserve a proper bass guitar amplifier with at least 3 X 12ax7 tubes and 4 X KT88's.
Or if its Mesa 12 X 6L6 output tubes would be best.
Don't assault these beautiful old speakers with a lightweight modern tranny amp, if you can lift a proper vintage 15" speaker, why not lift a proper vintage tube amp.
I collect the K series versions with the Alnico magnet which are a little bit lighter in weight but sound very very similar.
Now you have E140's you can save on gym membership.

Thanks for the suggestions!

Originally Posted by MysticMichael

Insufficient information. As always, the more prepared you are to qualify the question(s) you pose, the more correct & precise is likely to be the answer(s) you receive...

MM

My apologies. I suppose I should clarify. What I meant to say is, has anyone ever owned/used a pair of these cabs? If so, what amp did you use, and how did you like it?

Or for fun, if suddenly these cabs fell into your lap today (along with a roadie to move them for you), what amp would you plug into and why? Here's JBL's old tech manual for the 4625B.

In all honesty, I'm expecting vague answers because I'm asking vague questions. I'm just looking for the input of others to help give me perspective which will likely lead me to do more research and help me learn more.

Thanks for the responses so far!

[c2thej2theizzo]

Dont know about those speakers, but I Love the sound of Old Speakers w/Newer Amps & New Speakers w/ Old amps. (sometimes) Old amp with old speakers can be just ratty sounding, and New with New can sound too polished. I've had all sorts of GK's and Eden amps and they tend to make great heads for numerous kinds of old speakers - perhaps its just preference. I've been experimenting with my Backline 350 on a couple of Klipsch Chorus speakers I found in a garage sale and its pretty authentic sounding. I have also been enjoying the sound of my McIntosh 2120 amp thru my Eden 210XST speakers.

anyways - My recommendation is NOT to change amps but rather to first to pick up a 30 band Graphic or semi parametric EQ to try to shape your sound, especially with those speakers because they only go a bit above 2K, which means alot of your definition is going to come from shaping your mids to your liking. Alot of guys on TB will change amps and change amps, and speakers and basses etc... to try to find their sound, but a big part of finding a good sound for any amp/speaker combination is Equalization. Three tone knobs on an preamp is almost never going to do it - if ur picky like me. Plus all the bass amp manufacturers have a different idea of what mids are. Some think they are at 500Hz some think they are at 2.2kHz etc... Have fun with those JBLs!

[nysbob]

A V4B will do very nicely by those cabs...If you want to slay get an all tube SVT.

[Coughdrops]

Originally Posted by nysbob

A V4B will do very nicely by those cabs...If you want to slay get an all tube SVT.

+1000

I bet those newer fender heads would sound good too.

[Downunderwonder]

I can't find any design notes for a 4265B cabinet. They don't seem to follow the JBL generic note, looking more like 3 cubic ft than 4 cubic ft, and nothing like the ~19x23x16 shape of the #6 box for E140

[theinada]

Originally Posted by nysbob

A V4B will do very nicely by those cabs...If you want to slay get an all tube SVT.

My experience with tube amps is extremely minimal. I once rented a Traynor YBA-200 for a month and wasn't really impressed. Sounded great at bedroom levels but couldn't keep up even in smaller rooms with the band I was with at the time (7-piece funk thing). May have been an issue with the amp itself (abused rental?) or using relatively inefficient cabs (mostly used an Ashdown MAG410T at that time).

I might be able to get my hands on a friend of a friend's V4B for a test run. There is also an older Traynor tube head in one of the rehearsal spaces I use that I might take for a spin. Would an SVT shred these cabs to bits if I wasn't careful?

Originally Posted by Coughdrops

+1000

I bet those newer fender heads would sound good too.

I had the opportunity to try one of the new Fender 100T heads in store. Thought it sounded great, but it's well out of my price range for the next year or two (thanks, student loans). There will likely be some great offerings in that same range in the years to come.

Originally Posted by Downunderwonder

I can't find any design notes for a 4265B cabinet. They don't seem to follow the JBL generic note, looking more like 3 cubic ft than 4 cubic ft, and nothing like the ~19x23x16 shape of the #6 box for E140

I'm pretty sure the dimensions are listed on that spec sheet I posted earlier. I know they are different from internal volume, I still think it's much more than 3 cubic feet. I did get to take a peek inside one of the cabs when I took the driver out to rewire it. Some bracing, insulation, but quite a lot of open space. I don't know.

Another random idea I've had reading some of johnk_10's recent posts in a recent thread: does anyone think loading 3015s into these cabs would yield interesting results? I do have a Crown with plenty o' juice collecting dust right now. Although hearing myself say this seems ridiculous since I'd put more into the 3015s then I put into the cabs and they'd still be stupidly heavy. I'm definitely planning on getting a 2-wheel cart for these babies.

Thanks for the input! Please keep it coming!

[christw]

Originally Posted by theinada

Deep, round, but lots of midrange character. Does anyone have any recommendations on a different head to power these cabs? They are pretty efficient cabs, 100db I believe. Each handle 200w continuous sine wave. Ashdown? Mesa? Tube? Streamliner?

I'd suggest giving a Mesa 400 or 400+ a go. My Bassman 300 Pro was cheap and is surprisingly articulate with a graphic EQ from 31.5 hz to 16khz by octave that really lets you fine tune your tone. An SVT wouldn't hurt through those cabs either. I had an E140 loaded TL606 cab that killed so let me say: take your pick! Most of them will be lots of fun through those cabs.

[MrBEAR]

Thirty years ago this worked extremely well playing local bars without P.A. support for anything other than vocals:



The all tube Peavey was touted as a powerful 120 watt guitar amp back then, although with flats and a pick, performed admirably as a bass rig that I dearly miss. Coulda, Shoulda, Woulda or.. all aboard the G.A.S. train.

ymmv, etc.

[Downunderwonder]

Is that the same cab? Hard to tell ports from ???? embellished panel?

[theinada]

Originally Posted by Downunderwonder

Is that the same cab? Hard to tell ports from ???? embellished panel?

Yep, same cab. I took my photo with my cell phone. Pretty low lighting in the room. Also the grill cloths could definitely use a deep clean. They've got about 25 years of grime worked in there so they are a bit darker than what they used to be. Also, the top cab has a bit of a Franken-driver loaded. It's a 2225 with a fresh E140 recone (including a paper dust cover).

Thanks for the tube head suggestions christw and MrBEAR. I will be saving up for a while and try out as many combinations as I can, hopefully even on a gig or two. Great pic MrBEAR! Which Peavey head was that? There's actually a Peavey Heritage VTX 130 tube head for sale cheap on the local CL. It has a solid state preamp though. Do you remember the preamp on the Peavey you had?

[lowendblues]

I cant speak for those particular cabinets,,,, But I had a pair of E-140's back in the day. I loaded them in a 2-15 Carvin cabinet, (back when you could buy the cabinet unloaded).

I used that cabinet with an old Peavey Mark III series head for years, and it just rocked the house.

That cab with the JBL's is on my short list for gear I wish I had never parted with.

[nysbob]

What's funny is - I had a pair of cabarets just like that (one with a badge and one without) loaded with K145s that were liberated from my van in Louisville (along with a lot of other stuff) back in '92. They're great boxes - although you're right about the weight.

I subsequently had a pair of cabs made that have a little more interior volume but less heavy.

[ExaltBass]

Nice score! I have a pair of the 4623 cabs (E130 and 2402H ring radiator) and a single 4602 (monitor wedge with E120 & ring radiator) They're very well made cabs, and if they weren't so heavy I'd take them out of the garage occasionally The 4623s sound killer, and even the 4602 wedge sounds great as an onstage monitor for bass.

The Eden WT550 might be a nice fit for your cabs. I tried out the 4623s at less than gig volume with my Eden WT800C and they sounded sweet! The Eden has gobs of tone control too.

my .25

[MrBEAR]

Sorry but I cannot remember the model name of that head.
It came in its own road/flight case, front and back removable panels but definately an all tube, pre & power, set up using 6L6 for power tubes.

When I get time later I'll review some old photo albums and see if I can find a picture with the model name visible.

[theinada]

Originally Posted by ExaltBass

Nice score! I have a pair of the 4623 cabs (E130 and 2402H ring radiator) and a single 4602 (monitor wedge with E120 & ring radiator) They're very well made cabs, and if they weren't so heavy I'd take them out of the garage occasionally The 4623s sound killer, and even the 4602 wedge sounds great as an onstage monitor for bass.

The Eden WT550 might be a nice fit for your cabs. I tried out the 4623s at less than gig volume with my Eden WT800C and they sounded sweet! The Eden has gobs of tone control too.

my .25

Yeah, I have very limited experience with Eden, but it seems that from what I've read online and heard in person from some of my elders that Eden makes great amplifiers. I wish I had access to a dozen different heads at one time in the same room to do real time comparison. So often I hear things in completely different settings, often not in context with an ensemble and I really feel it throws my judgment off. For example, I bought a TC Electronic BC410 for a while that I loved in the store (even A/B'd with some Aguilar cabs) and at the first couple of shows (smaller rooms), but over time in a lot of settings and different groups I slowly changed my mind, as it often happens.

Originally Posted by MrBEAR

Sorry but I cannot remember the model name of that head.
It came in its own road/flight case, front and back removable panels but definately an all tube, pre & power, set up using 6L6 for power tubes.

When I get time later I'll review some old photo albums and see if I can find a picture with the model name visible.

Thanks, MrBEAR, I'm just curious, so don't put too much work into it. I had just never seen a Peavey like that before.