New member, some advice on my setup.

[jarrah]

Hi all,
my current setup is: Markbass Little Mark Tube 800 - 500w @ 8ohm/800w @ 4ohm and an Orange SP212 isobaric cab. Both purchased secondhand due to budget constraints. This setup was fine at home, but now I'm in a band and it's just not loud enough.
Is it better to get a second cab to run alongside the Orange 212, such as an Orange 115, this should give more volume and the amp will run at 800w/4ohm OR should I just bite the bullet and get a 410 cab? I'm currently able to get an Orange 115 brand new for a good price. Also able to get a Markbass 410hf (4ohm) or an SWR 410 golight (4ohm) both cheap and secondhand. I'd like a rig that's easy to lug around, which I think either option would cover. Neither of the Orange cabs are large or heavy and the 410s are large but lightweight.
I play prog rock/metal, stoner/doom rock/metal and some funkier stuff. I like the Orange sound but I'm not married to it, the Markbass head is pretty cool I think, although I'd love to get an Orange Bass Terror (no money! Mortgage, wife blah, blah).

So, any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks

[alembicguy]

Are you not hearing your entire rig or just certain notes?
What is the rest of the bands volume like?

[B-string]

If the 115 is 8ohm that would be the choice out of the above. A single 4 ohm 410 would not be better that than an 8 ohm 212 and 8 ohm 115 combined for 4 ohm (as low as the amp can go for loading).

[jarrah]

The rest of the band is pretty loud. I can hear my low end but it's definently lacking the individual notes. The speakers will distort on certain notes as well and I don't want to drive the amp or the speaker too hard. Should also mention I'm using an Ibanez 4 string SR500 and occasionally downtuning to d or b for some songs.

[alembicguy]

What's your EQing look like? Maybe if you change it up slightly like less low end and maybe more mids you will cut thru better and not fart your cab out.

[jchrisk1]

Have you tried turning up your mids? That should help you cut through the mix better. It's hard to imagine 500 watts through a 212 not being loud enough.

[jchrisk1]

What sounds good at home rarely sounds good in a band situation. Standing farther out in front of your speakers can help you hear them better as well.

[majortoby]

I think the problem is the isobaric 212. You're very likely really only getting one 12 worth of output with some extra bass and power handling. A 410 would probably be a good deal louder.

[NYCbassist]

Your Orange SP212 is a great Cabinet But your hands are tied for "adding on" due to the 4Ohm limitation. I would try to trade it for 2 8 Ohm cabs or 1 really nice 8 Ohm Cab of equal Value and then add a 2nd cab.

In the meantime as stated above EQ can be your best friend.

Lately I have been using my Eq to "Turn Up" my volume and it's amazing how loud you can get without cranking the volume knob. Back the bass knob down first then listen to the difference.
Good luck with it,

[jarrah]

Your Orange SP212 is a great Cabinet But your hands are tied for "adding on" due to the 4Ohm limitation.

Sorry, I should've have stated that the Orange 212 is 8ohm, which means I can add a second cab.

I think the problem is the isobaric 212. You're very likely really only getting one 12 worth of output with some extra bass and power handling.

This is probably exactly right, its not really 2 x 12" speakers, more like 1 x 12" with some extra low end and higher power handling. I understood the limitations when I cobbled the setup together, just didn't think I'd be in a band so soon haha.

I have tried using the EQ to get some more volume out of it, but I usually just end up cranking it to around 75% volume...and its still nowhere near loud enough. Just doesn't seem to cut through the sound in the room. I'd like to add the 15" cab, but will that give me enough speaker surface area for a decent rig to practise and play live? Or should I just go for a 410 because that's guaranteed to give me enough volume?
I've made a habit of using unconventional rigs, I've just come back to playing after a 4 year break, but the rig I used to use was a tube amp with 2 15" cabs, was huge but awesome sounding. I do like a vintage sound, a lot of 410s I've tried, especially neo speakers, have just sounded sort of "tinny" or electronic to me, maybe its the horn/tweeters they all have these days.
Thanks

[Gearhead17]

Originally Posted by jarrah

I do like a vintage sound, a lot of 410s I've tried, especially neo speakers, have just sounded sort of "tinny" or electronic to me, maybe its the horn/tweeters they all have these days.
Thanks

Typically, you can turn down the tweeters on many bass cabs. Look for a dial on the back of the cab and turn it to the left. This might help you out in the future.

I think you should ditch the cabinet you have and get something better. Use your ears on that one. Two identical 8 ohm cabs is the way to go.

That Markbass head should be plenty loud - the VLE is basically a high end roll off and the VPF is a classic "kill the midrange" knob. Keep both to the left to start and keep the other tone knobs at noon until you get a good tone going.

[NYCbassist]

Originally Posted by jarrah

Sorry, I should've have stated that the Orange 212 is 8ohm, which means I can add a second cab.

This is probably exactly right, its not really 2 x 12" speakers, more like 1 x 12" with some extra low end and higher power handling. I understood the limitations when I cobbled the setup together, just didn't think I'd be in a band so soon haha.

I have tried using the EQ to get some more volume out of it, but I usually just end up cranking it to around 75% volume...and its still nowhere near loud enough. Just doesn't seem to cut through the sound in the room. I'd like to add the 15" cab, but will that give me enough speaker surface area for a decent rig to practise and play live? Or should I just go for a 410 because that's guaranteed to give me enough volume?
I've made a habit of using unconventional rigs, I've just come back to playing after a 4 year break, but the rig I used to use was a tube amp with 2 15" cabs, was huge but awesome sounding. I do like a vintage sound, a lot of 410s I've tried, especially neo speakers, have just sounded sort of "tinny" or electronic to me, maybe its the horn/tweeters they all have these days.
Thanks

That's good news. I would get a 2nd matching 2x12. It will be like night and day with 4 12's total at 4 Ohms.

[CL400Peavey]

Originally Posted by NYCbassist

That's good news. I would get a 2nd matching 2x12. It will be like night and day with 4 12's total at 4 Ohms.

Except you still only have the output of a 212. The iso design does not give you the SPL of both drivers.

[boamedt]

/\ not unless you compensate with twice the watts, which is what orange will even recommend.

[lomo]

Originally Posted by CL400Peavey

Except you still only have the output of a 212. The iso design does not give you the SPL of both drivers.

Exactly. The Orange iso 212 allows the output of 1 driver in a smaller box without having a box that's tuned higher (which would normally be the case for a smaller box). Orange did not invent this. It's an old concept largely abandoned because all you get is a smaller box for your 12, at the cost of spending more for the 2nd driver and adding weight-bleh (no offense, but there's a reason this has been dumped in the ditch off to the side of the bass cab highway). It makes great marketing though

Your head is plenty powerful. I'd sell the Orange 112 (it really is a 112 in terms of output) and get an 8 Ohm 410. If that isn't loud enough get a 2nd 8 Ohm 410 and you'll be stylin. Volume is all about effective cone area, and the Orange iso 212 doesn't have much.

To those who will flame me saying their Orange Iso cabs are the best thing since sliced bread: I am happy you are happy. They sound great, but the output limitations are a function of the laws of physics, and the volume capability per dollar of those cabs lags faaaaaaaaaaaaar behind other 212 (in the case of the Iso 212) cabs, even at lower price points. If you want a 112 tuned low and need it to be small, then the product makes a lot of sense, but costs a lot.

[ChrisB2]

IMO, and no offense but, especially with the music you're playing, your cabinet is just wrong. If I were you, I would match your MB head up with the MB 4ohm 410.

If I were me, I would get a 4ohm 810... Ampeg to be exact... and I would not have the volume problems you're experiencing...

[jarrah]

To those who will flame me saying their Orange Iso cabs are the best thing since sliced bread: I am happy you are happy. They sound great, but the output limitations are a function of the laws of physics, and the volume capability per dollar of those cabs lags faaaaaaaaaaaaar behind other 212 (in the case of the Iso 212) cabs, even at lower price points. If you want a 112 tuned low and need it to be small, then the product makes a lot of sense, but costs a lot.

Exactly. I wouldn't have bought this cab if it wasn't dirt cheap and secondhand. They retail around $1000 here, which is just ridiculous in terms of what you're getting. I have played through a "real" Orange rig before, Terror Bass 1000+4x10+115, and was very impressed.
Looks like I'm taking the Orange cab out of the equation then. I'll be getting either the Markbass 410hf or the SWR 410 Golight, depending on which sounds better when I give them a try, they both have identical specs, I really don't plan on adding a second cab (wouldn't fit both in my car!) so I guess I'm happy with the 4ohm. They're both cheap/secondhand so I can chop and change without too much financial loss.
Would love to know what 2 Orange 115 sounded like.

IMO, and no offense but, especially with the music you're playing, your cabinet is just wrong.

No offense taken, you are absolutely right
My apologies for all the questions, I'm pretty obsessive when it comes to researching purchases. Just want to stop worrying about gear and get playing!
Thanks

[Gearhead17]

""Looks like I'm taking the Orange cab out of the equation then. I'll be getting either the Markbass 410hf or the SWR 410 Golight, depending on which sounds better when I give them a try""

Take your bass AND head to the store and try them out. Sounds like a good plan!

[Bassmec]

Originally Posted by jarrah

Exactly. I wouldn't have bought this cab if it wasn't dirt cheap and secondhand. They retail around $1000 here, which is just ridiculous in terms of what you're getting. I have played through a "real" Orange rig before, Terror Bass 1000+4x10+115, and was very impressed.
Looks like I'm taking the Orange cab out of the equation then. I'll be getting either the Markbass 410hf or the SWR 410 Golight, depending on which sounds better when I give them a try, they both have identical specs, I really don't plan on adding a second cab (wouldn't fit both in my car!) so I guess I'm happy with the 4ohm. They're both cheap/secondhand so I can chop and change without too much financial loss.
Would love to know what 2 Orange 115 sounded like.

No offense taken, you are absolutely right
My apologies for all the questions, I'm pretty obsessive when it comes to researching purchases. Just want to stop worrying about gear and get playing!
Thanks

To obtain the best money for your isobaric cab, go with a marketing campaign that properly targets the average user, IE look only for old jazzers or folkies with goatee beards. they love em.
I thought u geezers always had access to a ute somehow or other.
I think a pair of fifteens is a very good idea.
You would do very well if you could find any cabs that are like the Orange 115's based on the Electrovoice TL 606 cab with If possible EVM 15l's in.
Old Mesa Diesel Cabs are very very good.
But quite a lot of home builds followed these sort of plans for years.
An old acoustic or sunn 2x15 would be great too especially good with the JBL K140 speaker option.
Old Ampeg SVT 115 cabs are great too, especially great with Altec driver options in.
Or go the modern Neo approach and get a 15/15/6/6/1 or something else lightweight in a two by fifteen.