new micro (small) bass amps

[Bijoux]

Hey guys, I am wondering if anyone has been able to compare some of the new bass amps, the class D power type of thing.
I owned a Eden WTX260, and a EA Micro, and also an Acoustic Image for a while.
I know most brands now have an amp that weights about 3 pounds or less.

But which ones can truly deliver some fat low end?

I do have an Eden WT550, and an Ampeg SVT-4 PRO.
But depending on conditions, load in, opening band, etc. I just wish I had something real small that would not be a compromise sound wise.

Is there something out there today under 3 pounds that truly deliver the goods?

[remo]

The GB Shuttle 6.0 is 3.75 lb.. and sounds the biz!

[seamonkey]

It's not that amps, it's usually the cabinets that don't deliver.
Don't be afraid to tweak the EQ knobs on the amp - that's what they are there for.
Heads by difference manufacturers will have different default EQ (coloring) when knobs are set flat (12 o'clock). You really need to compare them by tweaking knobs, not leaving them flat.

[aguacateojos]

I've enjoyed the Eden WTX-500 that I bought in March - as much low as I want, but it all depends on the cabinet.

[shoot-r]

Originally Posted by seamonkey

Don't be afraid to tweak the EQ knobs on the amp - that's what they are there for.
Heads by difference manufacturers will have different default EQ (coloring) when knobs are set flat (12 o'clock). You really need to compare them by tweaking knobs, not leaving them flat.

+1...
Most players here at the forum think that you have to run every amp's controls at 12 o'clock or their's something wrong.
As SeaM said, "those knobs are there to tweak."
My G.K. MB2-500 micro head through two Avatar Neo 210 cabinets are capable of giving me more low-end than I can use.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Bijoux

Hey guys, I am wondering if anyone has been able to compare some of the new bass amps, the class D power type of thing.
I owned a Eden WTX260, and a EA Micro, and also an Acoustic Image for a while.
I know most brands now have an amp that weights about 3 pounds or less.

But which ones can truly deliver some fat low end?

I do have an Eden WT550, and an Ampeg SVT-4 PRO.
But depending on conditions, load in, opening band, etc. I just wish I had something real small that would not be a compromise sound wise.

Is there something out there today under 3 pounds that truly deliver the goods?

The most extended low end (i.e., the hi pass filtering set very low) I've heard in the micro heads is the GK MB500 and the TecAmp Puma. Both are above your weight, but only slightly.

However, deep low end is not always a good thing... eats a lot of power, really punishes a cab (those two heads really get the speakers pistoning).

If you want good usable low end, lots of volume, relatively even voicing, IMO the Markbass LMIII or the F500 are the tops in the category. The Genz Benz Shuttle 9 is also quite impressive... kind of sits between the warm, mid punch of the MB heads and the super goosed deep bass and super sizzle of the GK MB500 to my ear.

That EA Micro and the lower powered Eden are not very good representations of what these smaller amps can do now. They wump!

[B String]

Originally Posted by remo

The GB Shuttle 6.0 is 3.75 lb.. and sounds the biz!

I don't get it. I just don't get it!
The company tells us they designed this head not to have too much low end. Reviews say not as much low end as many other amps out there...and guys still tell you to get this head for good low end. WHY???
I understand the weight thing. Its light weight. Its also one of the most anemic heads I've ever played through. Didn't even make it to one gig. The OP asked for a head "that can truly deliver some fat low end". Not to flame anyone here, but the idea is to try and give accurate information to help others find the right gear for their needs.

[bottomzone]

I'm really enjoying my EA Micro 300 and my Phil Jones Bass 6B Neo. A new sax player came to out rehearsal this morning and couldn't believe the sound that was coming from my rig!!!! No lack of bottom or clarity here!!!

A Groove is a Terrible Thing to Waste!

[jnewmark]

Originally Posted by B String

I don't get it. I just don't get it!
The company tells us they designed this head not to have too much low end. Reviews say not as much low end as many other amps out there...and guys still tell you to get this head for good low end. WHY???
I understand the weight thing. Its light weight. Its also one of the most anemic heads I've ever played through. Didn't even make it to one gig. The OP asked for a head "that can truly deliver some fat low end". Not to flame anyone here, but the idea is to try and give accurate information to help others find the right gear for their needs.

Dunno. I guess one person's low end is another persons mid range. To me, it depends on the cab, and how your eq is set. My F1 gives me more low end than I'll ever need, but otoh, I don't play any Reggae either.

[bamabass]

Originally Posted by B String

I don't get it. I just don't get it!
The company tells us they designed this head not to have too much low end. Reviews say not as much low end as many other amps out there...and guys still tell you to get this head for good low end. WHY???
I understand the weight thing. Its light weight. Its also one of the most anemic heads I've ever played through. Didn't even make it to one gig. The OP asked for a head "that can truly deliver some fat low end". Not to flame anyone here, but the idea is to try and give accurate information to help others find the right gear for their needs.

I can tell you my shuttle delivers the bottom end, and I am sure I can find a lot of other happy shuttle users that can attest to this. This is based on my experience and not what a review or GB says. I appreciate your experience but it doesn't mean all of ours experiences are the same.

[gm2_in_co]

Originally Posted by B String

I don't get it. I just don't get it!
The company tells us they designed this head not to have too much low end. Reviews say not as much low end as many other amps out there...and guys still tell you to get this head for good low end. WHY???
I understand the weight thing. Its light weight. Its also one of the most anemic heads I've ever played through. Didn't even make it to one gig. The OP asked for a head "that can truly deliver some fat low end". Not to flame anyone here, but the idea is to try and give accurate information to help others find the right gear for their needs.

Could it be the difference between "boom" and "tight" maybe? "Warm" and "sterile?" "Exaggerated" and "accurate?"

[lomo]

Originally Posted by KJung

That EA Micro and the lower powered Eden are not very good representations of what these smaller amps can do now. They wump!

FWIW the newer EA micro and 500 watt, newer Eden WTX are plenty juicy.

[1kinal]

Originally Posted by bamabass

I can tell you my shuttle delivers the bottom end, and I am sure I can find a lot of other happy shuttle users that can attest to this. This is based on my experience and not what a review or GB says. I appreciate your experience but it doesn't mean all of ours experiences are the same.

+1

My shuttle replaced an Ashdown ABM500, an amp that is known for its warm and fat low-end. While they are obviously not the same type of amps, by using the shuttle EQ and the proper preamp gain (use of the tube), I am able to achieve a tight, focussed and clear low-end. I know Genz-Benz is known for super clean sounds but it's not really how I use it. It shows the amp is versatile.

And like KJung said, super deep low-end is not a good thing if you want to achieve good volume, especially with a micro head. It sure sounds good thru headphones but on the gig, it's high-lows that will make you hear the note you play, the deep lows will just make your pants move

And let's not forget why a certain product is designed. A micro head is designed towards musicians on the move, someone living in the city and getting to the gig by public transportations, etc...so the cab they will be using is generally not a 4x12 or 8x10. So for a small cabinet, a super deep low-end would just waste power and send unwanted frequency's to the small speaker (possibly damaging it).

On the other hand, if you get called for a big tour with roadies and many 8x10's, I doubt the Shuttle (or any micro head) will be the product you choose to bring.

Different product, different use. Find the best one for what you need.

And just to show how taste vary, I once had a Euphonic-Audio iAMP800 and for me THAT was anemic sounding...

[SteveC]

I had to turn down the bass on my 6.0-12T combo at our outdoor gig today. We had a PA, but on the stage it was boomy. Go figure.

I used to one of the "run the eq at noon" camp, but they make those things adjustable for a reason. Otherwise they could just put gain and volume knobs and be done.

[4Mal]

I find the GK MB2-500 to be a great compliment to my WT-800.

[Bijoux]

Well I have an Ampeg SVT4PRO and an Eden WT550. I feel that with those amps there is no compromise. I can get any tone I want, with plenty of headroom.
As for small amps I used to have the Eden WTX260 and I currently have the Eden Micro (500watts)
I like the micro because it is very versatile and incredibly small. And I can switch between electric to upright very easily.
There is no possible comparison between the EA and the Ampeg, and the Eden.
I use at one specific club a SWR Goliath 610, also a Peavey 410TX, and an EBS 410 that these clubs keep around.
It's not about playing loud. I play mostly jazz, fusion in these situations.
My eden WT550 is a great candidate for most things that I can get in an out, small etc...
But still, if I have to go up/down stairs, elevators, parking garages, etc, the Micro is incredibly more handy, although when I finally get to stage I keep feeling like I would rather have the Eden and the Ampeg.
Anyway, bottom line is the to my experience there is a huge difference between the heavier amps and the light Class D power amps. And that is just a fact.
I am just wondering if any of the newer models have already addressed that issue.
Unfortunately I don't have a lot of time to go out and try a lot of stuff, also there aren't a whole lot of options in Denver-CO.
Thanks for all the responses so far.

[agedhorse]

Originally Posted by B String

I don't get it. I just don't get it!
The company tells us they designed this head not to have too much low end. Reviews say not as much low end as many other amps out there...and guys still tell you to get this head for good low end. WHY???

Let's clarify something here, the only difference is a few Hz higher fixed high pass filter than say the 9.0 or even the GBE's. It's designed to prevent subsonic overexcursion on the more compact cabinets (not just ours but everybody's) but it's not a big difference at all. On the compact cabinets the difference is not even audible on most of them.

For many players, it is a good choice. Maybe not a good choice for you, your cabinet or your style but that's your preference.

[steve_rolfeca]

I'm going to be rude and ask the question, as it's been on my mind for some time:

What are the HPF cutoff frequencies on the Shuttle heads?

When I first switched to 5-string electric bass, I searched long and hard in order to put together a rig that could reproduce a true low B fundamental, at moderate volume levels.

I eventually got it done, found that I could feel/hear the difference, and decided that it was good. Contrary to what I'd been told, putting those frequencies into the room didn't cause problems, at least in the venues where I was playing. An interesting side-effect, was that I actually used less EQ, now that I was getting true fundamentals.

These days, I use a system that has a sharp 40Hz cutoff for louder gigs, but for quiet, acoustic sets, I still like laying down a nice solid low D or C pedal note on occasion.

I still have speakers that can do it, but I need a new head, and thus my interest...

[countrybass007]

My Orange Tiny Terror delivers awesome lows, but I'm sure the OBC115 has quite a bit to do with that. It is 10lbs heavy though.

[agedhorse]

Originally Posted by steve_rolfeca

I'm going to be rude and ask the question, as it's been on my mind for some time:

What are the HPF cutoff frequencies on the Shuttle heads?

When I first switched to 5-string electric bass, I searched long and hard in order to put together a rig that could reproduce a true low B fundamental, at moderate volume levels.

I eventually got it done, found that I could feel/hear the difference, and decided that it was good. Contrary to what I'd been told, putting those frequencies into the room didn't cause problems, at least in the venues where I was playing. An interesting side-effect, was that I actually used less EQ, now that I was getting true fundamentals.

These days, I use a system that has a sharp 40Hz cutoff for louder gigs, but for quiet, acoustic sets, I still like laying down a nice solid low D or C pedal note on occasion.

I still have speakers that can do it, but I need a new head, and thus my interest...

Not a rude question IMO...

The HPF point varies depending on the position of the LF extend switch, and it's an asymmetrical and somewhat unconventional filter topology, but the 9.0 is in the low to middle 30's and the 6.0 is in the middle to high 30's with the LF extend engaged. With the LF extend disengaged, the HPF shifts up about 7-10Hz.

With the LF extend engaged, a larger cabinet will reproduce the extended low frequency resopnse better.

Maybe part of the confusion is that the amp's real LF response should be evaluated with the LF extend engaged. The HPF is more noticeable with the switch out... ie the high pass position. I wonder how many folks are commenting based on the switch being out and thinking that it's a LF boost switch rather than a response extension???