new speakers? or additional EQ?

[hachi kid]

hey guys. I'm using a Carvin X100B through some Faital Pro W10N4-200 drivers in a LDS cab. but I'm noticing my overdriven tone is sounding too muffled for my tastes. I have the mid driver turned all the way up, as well as the presence and treble knob and the 1.5K and the 3K slider on the graphic EQ are all the way up, as well.

thing is, when I played this head through my drummers Sunn 412 cab (guitar cab), it had plenty of brightness and crunch to it, though. so much, I had to trim the presence knob and the 3K slider down just a bit. the tone was sounding a lot like Lemmy, but with more gain.

to get this tone on my own rig, should I replace the speakers? or would adding a graphic or parametric EQ work just as well? and if I replace the speakers, which ones should I use? I don't know much about speakers, to be honest. I don't have much experience switching them around. I trim the low end down on the "bass" knob on the amp, so I'm wondering if I should install some 10" guitar speakers. I bi-amp my rig like Billy Sheehan, so all my lows would be coming from a second clean amp going into a ported 18.


I was also thinking of using the JFK trick of using PA speakers to get more extended upper mids and highs, but I don't know what's what there, either.

[will33]

If you're boosting those freq's that much and not hearing it I'd start by making sure your mid driver isn't blown....shouldn't have a problem hearing that stuff.

[hachi kid]

it isn't. I can hear a difference when I turn the mid driver knob up and down. the speakers just seem to be very muffled compared to the guitar cab.

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by hachi kid

it isn't. I can hear a difference when I turn the mid driver knob up and down. the speakers just seem to be very muffled compared to the guitar cab.

What is the mid driver?

[hachi kid]

this:

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by hachi kid

this:

I'd say that's the problem. It's not a high quality driver. Even Pyle can't give you specs on it.

[hachi kid]

ah. I may have to upgrade that, as well. but the thing is, my friends guitar cab didn't have any sort of midrange driver or tweeter in it. just the guitar speakers. one thing I'm wondering about, I was looking at the specs of the speakers I have in my cab at the moment. it says it has a "Paper Pulp (Weather Proof)" cone and "Treated Cloth" cone surround. is this contributing to the speakers being too muffled? also, neodymium magnets...do they have bad upper end? I heard from a friend who is a bit of a gear junkie that neo speakers have problems with articulation.

[lbwdog]

Originally Posted by hachi kid

I heard from a friend who is a bit of a gear junkie that neo speakers have problems with articulation.

No truth to that...
If everything is wired properly (with appropriate crossover), the mid driver should be reproducing your upper frequencies. Sounds like it isn't.

[hachi kid]

could it be that the speakers aren't broken in yet? and I guess to check if my mid-driver is working, just go down and turn it up and down?

[dhomer]

Just for grins n'giggles, try reversing the leads to the mid driver. May or may not make a difference. might be an issue w/crossover components as well.. Agree w/Bill Pyle drivers are generally a pyle of.....

[hachi kid]

I stuck my ear up to the mid-driver and turned it on and off, it's working. I'm wondering if I'm hearing the difference between paper cone/paper surround and a paper pulp cone/cloth surround. like I said, just running through the guitar cab, I was able to get the tone I wanted. but my cab can't fit 12's...so, I may look into getting some Peavey Delta Blues, or Jensen Mod's.

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by hachi kid

ah. I may have to upgrade that, as well. but the thing is, my friends guitar cab didn't have any sort of midrange driver or tweeter in it.

Look at some SPL charts for guitar drivers. Guitar drivers are designed with severe break up modes in the high end. Bass drivers aren't, otherwise they'd have no low end. You want a mid driver with break up modes similar to a guitar driver.

I heard from a friend who is a bit of a gear junkie that neo speakers have problems with articulation.

Baloney. He knows not of what he speaks.

[rpsands]

What you are noticing is a 92db midrange with two 97db tens. Duh.

[thudfromafar]

Originally Posted by rpsands

What you are noticing is a 92db midrange with two 97db tens. Duh.

The pic says the mid is 97db?

Another possibility is you have the mid turned all the way down instead of all the way up. Maybe it's reversed? Idk.

Did you try turning up the EQ around 800hz?

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by thudfromafar

The pic says the mid is 97db?

He's comparing it to guitar drivers, which often will have 97dB broadband sensitivity but 107dB and higher sensitivity in the upper mids.

[rpsands]

First the tens because there are.twovare 6db more sensitive with voltage gain and I seriously doubt the pyle mid is really that sensitive.

[hachi kid]

ok. I did an experiment. I took my Carvin and adjusted it to a setting that I would normally use when playing live. I ran it through my bass cab, and ran it through my drummer's Sunn Model 412 cab, and I kept the settings on the amp the exact same except the amp had to be ran at 16ohms when ran through the guitar cab. 4ohms for the bass cab. you can definitely hear the difference. here's the videos. lemme know what you think.

bass cab:
YouTube - ‪bass speakers‬‏

guitar cab:
YouTube - ‪guitar speakers‬‏

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by hachi kid

lemme know what you think.

I think you've already been told what you need to do, find an appropriate midrange driver. Over and out.

[hachi kid]

I've already got a strategy as to what I'm going to do. I just wanted to pass this along to a few people on here.