Not Enough Low Mids - What's the Problem?

[Jimmy Stump]

So, I've got a Markbass F1 head, and two Bergantino AE210 cabs with an '08 MIA Fender Jazz. No effects or anything else. I play with my fingers, right over the bridge pickup on the Jazz. Stainless steel Hi-Beam strings.

I get plenty of low end, high end, and upper mids coming through with this setup, but I just can't seem to get enough low mids for my tastes. I alternate between running the head absolutely flat with none of the filters on, and running bass and low mid at 11 o'clock, and high mids and high at 9 o'clock, which does seem to bump the lower mids a bit. Tweeter is set at about 35% for both cabs.

Based on the gear, can anyone shed some light on the problem, be it bass, head, or cabs, or EQ. More importantly, is there something I can do to solve the problem.

[KJung]

Not enough low mids with an F1 and two AE210's? Can't help you there That's one of the more low mid punchy rigs around IMO. Make sure you have that VPF filter off... that will kill your burp and punch.

I run my F500 absolutely flat with my AE410 (same as the F1 when set flat), and it burps like crazy, as you can hear in the clips I have up there.

I guess if you have a very scooped instrument, there could be some issues, and unfortunately, the F1 low mid control is set a bit too high to really dial in the burp if your instrument is inherently missing that.

One thing you can do is ever so slightly reduce that 40hz bass control, which will shift the ratio of deep bass to upper bass for you.

[nysbob]

The low mids you want to hear are why the P bass is the most recorded fender. Try a P/J with the jazz neck if that's your preference.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by nysbob

The low mids you want to hear are why the P bass is the most recorded fender. Try a P/J with the jazz neck if that's your preference.

If that is the tone the OP wants, he can get 80% there by just favoring the neck pickup a touch.

[Jimmy Stump]

Originally Posted by nysbob

The low mids you want to hear are why the P bass is the most recorded fender. Try a P/J with the jazz neck if that's your preference.

I'm definitely a Jazz first player, no desire for a P tone.

[Jimmy Stump]

Originally Posted by KJung

Not enough low mids with an F1 and two AE210's? Can't help you there That's one of the more low mid punchy rigs around IMO. Make sure you have that VPF filter off... that will kill your burp and punch.

I run my F500 absolutely flat with my AE410 (same as the F1 when set flat), and it burps like crazy, as you can hear in the clips I have up there.

I guess if you have a very scooped instrument, there could be some issues, and unfortunately, the F1 low mid control is set a bit too high to really dial in the burp if your instrument is inherently missing that.

One thing you can do is ever so slightly reduce that 40hz bass control, which will shift the ratio of deep bass to upper bass for you.

How much difference do you think the semi-parametric EQ makes on the F500? Is it pretty significant?

[tombowlus]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Stump

So, I've got a Markbass F1 head, and two Bergantino AE210 cabs with an '08 MIA Fender Jazz. No effects or anything else. I play with my fingers, right over the bridge pickup on the Jazz. Stainless steel Hi-Beam strings.

...is there something I can do to solve the problem.

Easy fix! Play over the neck pickup!

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Stump

I just can't seem to get enough low mids for my tastes...low mid at 11 o'clock

11:00 is cutting the low mids. Turn it up.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Stump

How much difference do you think the semi-parametric EQ makes on the F500? Is it pretty significant?

Well, only if you feel you need it. I literally don't feel the need to EQ my AE cabs much at all, so the F1 and F500 work equally well. However, if you feel you need more 'meat' in that low mid area, the low mid semiparametric dialed down to 100hz or so makes a bit difference when boosting a bit versus the fixed low mid of the F1 at around 400hz. The more fully featured DI and mute switch are just a bonus. The downside is that they had to go with concentric tone control knobs, given the small amount of real estate on that little front panel. Kind of hard to use and see 'on the fly on the gig'.

Usually moving your right hand position toward the bridge, and even favoring the bridge pickup a touch will punch up you tone in the low mids. However, not sure what tone you are actually looking for.

Here's a clip of my Sadowsky (in active and passive mode) with my F500 set flat (so the same as the F1 set flat) and my AE410 (similar to your AE210), so you at least know how I'm defining a 'punchy tone' with plenty of low mid 'meat'. My definition might be different from yours.

http://www.youtube.com/Kjungbass#p/u/7/s4utWpNEaVY

K

[KJung]

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

11:00 is cutting the low mids. Turn it up.

That would be a start... didn't notice that. However, that control is a relatively narrow Q centered around 400 hz. However, getting it back to flat would be a good thing!

[JulienJeff]

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

11:00 is cutting the low mids. Turn it up.

+1
it put the low mids at 1 pm on my LMII

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by KJung

That would be a start... didn't notice that. However, that control is a relatively narrow Q centered around 400 hz. However, getting it back to flat would be a good thing!

Why the love affair with flat? If it sounds best at 3:00 it sounds best at 3:00. It's not like that's going to tax either the amp or speakers with a 400Hz center.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

Why the love affair with flat? If it sounds best at 3:00 it sounds best at 3:00. It's not like that's going to tax either the amp or speakers with a 400Hz center.

You misunderstood my post. I was agreeing with you that it would be key to get that low mid control back to neutral as a start versus any sort of cut. However, IMO and IME, boosting at a relatively narrow 400hz does nothing but add nasal mids to that particular cab, which I'm very familiar with.

+1 to your comment in general, especially with heads that are not as close to flat when set neutral as the MB heads.

I would suggest the following to the OP:

Bass 11 o'clock
Low Mid noon
High Mid 11 o'clock
Treble.... noon
VPF... off
VLE... adjust to taste to tame the top end.

Tweeter on the AE cabs... noon.

[wshines1892]

Easy answer, get a precision

[plangentmusic]

100 hz.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by wshines1892

Easy answer, get a precision

I've heard MANY more boomy, non-defined, muddy P Basses in a mix than J Basses. That would definitely be a different tone for the OP, but would not 'fix' anything IMO.

[WoodyG3]

Originally Posted by tombowlus

Easy fix! Play over the neck pickup!

I agree, plus maybe experiment with different strings, maybe some nickel rounds.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by WoodyG3

I agree, plus maybe experiment with different strings, maybe some nickel rounds.

Moving closer to the neck with my right hand technique is the last thing I would recommend for tightening up the low end and shifting the low end ratio from deep bass to more low mids Don't get that at all. Fatter, fuller, deep low end with less mid character for some tunes... definitely.

Nickel rounds is a good idea though, since many nickel wound strings emphasize the low mids versus the upper mid emphasis of many stainless steel strings.

[JustOpenYourMind]

Hi,

Your setup seems to be geared towards a more hi-fi scooped sound,

First, strings

You use Hi-beams which are naturally scooped in the mids wich emphasize the ''plenty of bass and treble you are describing, these strings are great for slap bass or a modern sound but not so much in the vintagey lower mids sound department.

You can read up on various strings brand and their basic sound there:

http://www.ipass.net/davesisk/music/...eviewDec04.pdf

You hould try a string that is more forward in the mids, if you're sold to DR try the low-riders maybe.

Other than that, if you are using both pickups ''full-on'' you're having another big scoop in the mids (read up on frequency cancellation and guitar pickups if you are not familiar with this). So for more lower mids, at least favor the neck pickup or solo it completly.

Then, playing over the bridge pickup, naturally favors higher mids that create that burpy sound.

To make things short, your setup, the way you are playing the bass favors a higher mids burpy sound rather that a full lower mid warm sound.

Do some trial and error and you'll eventually find the sound.

Also remember that no bass can do it all, if you setup your bass for a great supportive sound, it'll be at the detriment of a modern lead slap tone and vice versa. Setup the bass for the sound you need for it's specific use.

[4-string]

Originally Posted by KJung

I've heard MANY more boomy, non-defined, muddy P Basses in a mix than J Basses. That would definitely be a different tone for the OP, but would not 'fix' anything IMO.

+1 all the way.