Observations

jelwood · #1 05-15-2010, 10:55 PM

So today (and tomorrow, technically) is the 24 hour relay (a cancer benefiting event). Basically people group up into teams and walk around a closed loop, taking turns (relaying) for a whole 24 hours straight.

But anyways, lots of bands came and played during the day (maybe about 1-1.5 hour sets each), so I had a lot of opportunity to A/B some amps.

One group that went up, the bassist was on a Warwick with a Trace Elliot head and a "Tech" 412 cabinet (supposedly made in Germany). I have to say, this guy had some killer grooves going on. The bass punched me in the stomach like a pro boxer, really nice. He had so much punch I thought he was actually hooked up to the PA until I personally went up after the show and asked him about it. Really smooth tone too. Maybe could have used a little more articulation, he was doing some serious slapping but he just didn't have enough zing to make everything clearly come out for that. But that's just me being picky.

The band right after that...the bassist was on a Rick I believe, with a Markbass head (tube, so I'm guessing one of the higher end heads in this line), and...you probably could have guessed it, but a good old Ampeg SVT 810E. I'm assuming it's one of the better, vintage ones (before Ampeg was bought out) because it was so dang road worn. Anyway, the guy was really cranking it (drowning out two marshall stacks...they should have been more careful during sound check, I guess), but I noticed that the Ampeg just didn't have the punch of the 412 cabinet. As in, it didn't hit me in the gut as much. He had just as much, if not more, volume than the guy with the 412, but definitely not as much punch. Tone was REALLY nice though, he had a very pleasing growl on top of everything.

I know that a lot of factors contribute to your sound out front, but this was a very big, noticeable difference. The Ampeg was placed in pretty much the same spot as the 412 (it was a rather small stage) and it wasn't just because of where I was standing, because I was moving around a lot for both bands and throughout the whole time the 412 was kicking butt while the Ampeg seemed to lack. The event was all outdoors, so it wasn't room acoustics. I also know that wattage ratings don't mean much, but I saw that the 412 was rated at 600 watts, and the Ampeg 800, so the guy on the 412 couldn't have been pumping that much more juice, if it all, to his cab than Mr. Ampeg.

I just thought I'd throw this out there more so than pose the question "why?" but for all you acoustics brainiacs, if you feel the urge to give some enlightenment, please do so

rbonner · #2 05-15-2010, 11:35 PM

The moon is in the sky and the sun is below the horizon, the drink flowed freely and the world is spinning. Whatever you think man, I'm with ya.

BOB

SurferJoe46 · #3 05-15-2010, 11:36 PM

Could be a lot of different factors. It's pretty hard to generalize like that - but taken into account the things you said and observed - it's not far out from reality that it could all be modeling or stale strings or old transistors (far out, but - well) ya see?

Could be temperature changes and humidity and air density and too many other things to list. But it boils down to the fact that you didn't like either that much and now it's your turn to find your sound.

That's why they make all those different colors of paint. SOMEbody will like "Strawberry Chartreuse Mint Enamel" and it might not- or doesn't have to be- you or me.

I like the bass line to sit in the groove and make the quarters in my pocket jump and I hear that's an immature musical ear. It doesn't bother me.

But that's just me.

Matt Dean · #4 05-16-2010, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbonner

The moon is in the sky and the sun is below the horizon, the drink flowed freely and the world is spinning. Whatever you think man, I'm with ya.

BOB

+1!

VinKreepo · #5 05-16-2010, 12:47 AM

Road worn Ampeg vs. not road worn 412... hmmm...

zachoff · #6 05-16-2010, 12:54 AM

Cab, amp, pedals, bass, player... All contribute. I gave up my first 810E for a Schroeder 1515 and it didn't work in my band at all. Same head, same bass, same pedals, same player... Completely different sound, altogether.

So, I have an 810 again and the Schroeder is for sale. The Schroeder isn't a bad cab by any means... Just not what I'm looking for in my tone. Different strokes for different folks is what it comes down to IMO.

jelwood · #7 05-16-2010, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VinKreepo

Road worn Ampeg vs. not road worn 412... hmmm...

The 412 had wear on it. It wasn't nearly brand new. The tolex on the Ampeg was tearing quite a bit, but the actual wood and frame were still looking good.

I Forget · #8 05-16-2010, 03:03 AM

Lets see.... different bands with different bassists using different instruments, different amps and different cabs. And they sounded quite different you say?

Beats me!

JimmyM · #9 05-16-2010, 03:42 AM

if they used the same gear, they would have still sounded different.

One Drop · #10 05-16-2010, 04:08 AM

One of the bands that passes through here regularly has a bassist/drummer and a guitarist/bassist, both great on the first and decent on the second instrument listed.

They swap instruments during a set, guitarist moving to bass (there is a second guitar/keys guy) and bassist to drums (drummer to the bar, of course),and while both get lovely tones from the same P bass and EQ, one gets a lusher cushiony smooth and fat bass tone, the other a very punchy, growly and tighter more focused one. The difference is massive, and both work in the same band setting pretty well.

Just one example of how equipment comparisons can be absolutely meaningless when not made in context of the player.

WingKL · #11 05-16-2010, 09:24 PM

The Trace Elliot head probably had more power than the Markbass, is why it sounded punchier.

BassmanPaul · #12 05-17-2010, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

if they used the same gear, they would have still sounded different.

Precisely! Exactly my thought too.

Paul

PSPookie · #13 05-17-2010, 08:41 AM

Also, different gear sounds different.

Lo-E · #14 05-17-2010, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

if they used the same gear, they would have still sounded different.

Agreed. Everybody sets up for the tone that they dig. I tend to get a similar tone from much different rigs and basses because that's what I like to hear and that's how I set my EQ.

Now just don't tell my wife or I won't be able to tell her that I "need" a certain new bass because of it's unique tonal attributes!

And yes: different gear definitely sounds different, but our own tonal stamp is usually firmly placed on all of it.